Deprecating The Grails Mailing Lists

[Jeff Scott Brown]

Attention Grails Users:

The Grails user mailing lists have served us well for a long time but it is time for us to move away from them.  One of the motivations for the move is the role that StackOverflow has taken on for us.  StackOverflow has a lot of great features to offer over and above what we get from the mailing list and a lot of folks have migrated over there anyway for asking Grails questions.  As it is right now the support channel is bisected with some questions being posted to the mailing list and some questions being posted to StackOverflow.  Some questions are being posted in both places.  A more efficient and productive way to move forward is for us to have 1 place for users to post technical questions about using the framework and effective immediately, that one place will be StackOverflow.  We have not decided how long the Grails User mailing list will be kept alive but it is out there for now and will stay for the time being.  The only thing that you should use the Grails User mailing list for at this point is responding to already existing ongoing threads.  Please do not start any new threads and please do not respond to any newly created threads.  All technical questions about using the framework should be posted to StackOverflow. 

When posting questions to StackOverflow please tag the questions with "grails" if your intent is to attract the attention of the Grails core developers and members of the community who are interested in monitoring those questions.  If you aren't sure if a question is really Grails related tag it with "grails" and any other tags that you think might be relevant.  This is one of the numerous benefits that StackOverflow is going to offer.  Right now if you wanted to target a question to both the Grails community and the Groovy community, there is no good way to do that without posting notes to 2 separate mailing lists where the discussion would be fragmented.  Don't tag the question with every technology that your app uses.  Try to narrow down to the ones you think are relevant to the question.  Don't tag every Grails question with both "grails" and "groovy".  If it really is just a question about the framework just use "grails".  The same goes with other technologies like hibernate, jquery or anything else that you might happen to be using in Grails app. 

To monitor activity on StackOverflow you have a number of options.  One of course is to visit http://www.stackoverflow.com with your browser.  Another that works well for me is I take advantage of RSS feeds like http://stackoverflow.com/feeds/tag?tagnames=grails&sort=newest.  I collect all of the feeds I am interested in watching in my http://feedly.com/ account and I use Reeder (http://reederapp.com/) on my desktop, laptop and all of my mobile devices and associated Reeder with my Feedly account.  All of that was very simple to setup and works well for me but there is no reason you have to use any of that to participate on StackOverflow. 

StackOverflow is designed specifically for asking technical questions.  For other discussions about the framework we have created a Google Group at http://groups.google.com/d/forum/grails-dev-discuss.  The intent of the group is to provide a forum for discussions about the framework similar to what the Grails Dev mailing list (as distinct from the Grails User mailing list) has historically been used for.  The Grails Dev list is being deprecated as well.  As with the Grails User list, please only use the Grails Dev list to respond to existing threads.  Please do not create any new threads on the Grails Dev list and please do not respond to any newly created threads on the Grails Dev list. 

Another point of interest, in case you aren’t aware of it, The Groovy Weekly is available http://us4.campaign-archive1.com/home/?u=cb8b56e9d6a1cb1696cecc673&id=1a76961630.  That is another great resource to keep an eye on what is going on in the Groovy community in general.

We anticipate that moving our technical question support channel to StackOverflow is going to provide a big benefit for the community.  Thanks for all of your help.



JSB

—
Jeff Scott Brown
***@gopivotal.com

Find The Cause ~ Find The Cure
http://www.autismspeaks.org/



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[zyro]

and what is your plan for announcements or more general questions (e.g.
regarding the next grails release or the state of a plugin and alike)?

i really, really hope this will not backfire and cause even more
fragmentation of information.

zyro

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [grails-user] Deprecating The Grails Mailing Lists
From: Jeff Scott Brown <***@gopivotal.com>
To: Grails User <***@grails.codehaus.org>, Grails Dev
<***@grails.codehaus.org>
Date: Fri, 9 May 2014 04:53:16 -0500

> Attention Grails Users:
>
> The Grails user mailing lists have served us well for a long time but it is time for us to move away from them. One of the motivations for the move is the role that StackOverflow has taken on for us. StackOverflow has a lot of great features to offer over and above what we get from the mailing list and a lot of folks have migrated over there anyway for asking Grails questions. As it is right now the support channel is bisected with some questions being posted to the mailing list and some questions being posted to StackOverflow. Some questions are being posted in both places. A more efficient and productive way to move forward is for us to have 1 place for users to post technical questions about using the framework and effective immediately, that one place will be StackOverflow. We
have not decided how long the Grails User mailing list will be kept alive but it is out there for now and will stay for the time being. The only thing that you should use the Grails User mailing l
ist for at this point is responding to already existing ongoing threads. Please do not start any new threads and please do not respond to any newly created threads. All technical questions about using the framework should be posted to StackOverflow.
>
> When posting questions to StackOverflow please tag the questions with "grails" if your intent is to attract the attention of the Grails core developers and members of the community who are interested in monitoring those questions. If you aren't sure if a question is really Grails related tag it with "grails" and any other tags that you think might be relevant. This is one of the numerous benefits that StackOverflow is going to offer. Right now if you wanted to target a question to both the Grails community and the Groovy community, there is no good way to do that without posting notes to 2 separate mailing lists where the discussion would be fragmented. Don't tag the question with every technology that your app uses. Try to narrow down to the ones you think are relevant to the quest
ion. Don't tag every Grails question with both "grails" and "groovy". If it really is just a question about the framework just use "grails". The same goes with other technologies like hibernate,
jquery or anything else that you might happen to be using in Grails app.
>
> To monitor activity on StackOverflow you have a number of options. One of course is to visit http://www.stackoverflow.com with your browser. Another that works well for me is I take advantage of RSS feeds like http://stackoverflow.com/feeds/tag?tagnames=grails&sort=newest. I collect all of the feeds I am interested in watching in my http://feedly.com/ account and I use Reeder (http://reederapp.com/) on my desktop, laptop and all of my mobile devices and associated Reeder with my Feedly account. All of that was very simple to setup and works well for me but there is no reason you have to use any of that to participate on StackOverflow.
>
> StackOverflow is designed specifically for asking technical questions. For other discussions about the framework we have created a Google Group at http://groups.google.com/d/forum/grails-dev-discuss. The intent of the group is to provide a forum for discussions about the framework similar to what the Grails Dev mailing list (as distinct from the Grails User mailing list) has historically been used for. The Grails Dev list is being deprecated as well. As with the Grails User list, please only use the Grails Dev list to respond to existing threads. Please do not create any new threads on the Grails Dev list and please do not respond to any newly created threads on the Grails Dev list.
>
> Another point of interest, in case you aren’t aware of it, The Groovy Weekly is available http://us4.campaign-archive1.com/home/?u=cb8b56e9d6a1cb1696cecc673&id=1a76961630. That is another great resource to keep an eye on what is going on in the Groovy community in general.
>
> We anticipate that moving our technical question support channel to StackOverflow is going to provide a big benefit for the community. Thanks for all of your help.
>
>
>
> JSB
>
> —
> Jeff Scott Brown
> ***@gopivotal.com
>
> Find The Cause ~ Find The Cure
> http://www.autismspeaks.org/
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this list, please visit:
>
> http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
>
>

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[Graeme Rocher]

More general discussion and announcement can and will be sent to the
new Google group.

We need to move away from Codehaus infrastructure and the mailing list
is the last thing we have on Codehaus, so we couldn't just maintained
'grails-dev' but since moving questions to Stack Overflow is something
we see as beneficial it seems to be the right time to change to a
Google group for general discussion around the framework (not
questions) and announcements

Cheers

On Fri, May 9, 2014 at 1:46 PM, zyro <***@zyro.net> wrote:
> and what is your plan for announcements or more general questions (e.g.
> regarding the next grails release or the state of a plugin and alike)?
>
> i really, really hope this will not backfire and cause even more
> fragmentation of information.
>
> zyro
>
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: [grails-user] Deprecating The Grails Mailing Lists
> From: Jeff Scott Brown <***@gopivotal.com>
> To: Grails User <***@grails.codehaus.org>, Grails Dev
> <***@grails.codehaus.org>
> Date: Fri, 9 May 2014 04:53:16 -0500
>
>> Attention Grails Users:
>>
>> The Grails user mailing lists have served us well for a long time but it
>> is time for us to move away from them. One of the motivations for the move
>> is the role that StackOverflow has taken on for us. StackOverflow has a lot
>> of great features to offer over and above what we get from the mailing list
>> and a lot of folks have migrated over there anyway for asking Grails
>> questions. As it is right now the support channel is bisected with some
>> questions being posted to the mailing list and some questions being posted
>> to StackOverflow. Some questions are being posted in both places. A more
>> efficient and productive way to move forward is for us to have 1 place for
>> users to post technical questions about using the framework and effective
>> immediately, that one place will be StackOverflow. We have not decided how
>> long the Grails User mailing list will be kept alive but it is out there for
>> now and will stay for the time being. The only thing that you should use
>> the Grails User mailing l
>
> ist for at this point is responding to already existing ongoing threads.
> Please do not start any new threads and please do not respond to any newly
> created threads. All technical questions about using the framework should
> be posted to StackOverflow.
>>
>>
>> When posting questions to StackOverflow please tag the questions with
>> "grails" if your intent is to attract the attention of the Grails core
>> developers and members of the community who are interested in monitoring
>> those questions. If you aren't sure if a question is really Grails related
>> tag it with "grails" and any other tags that you think might be relevant.
>> This is one of the numerous benefits that StackOverflow is going to offer.
>> Right now if you wanted to target a question to both the Grails community
>> and the Groovy community, there is no good way to do that without posting
>> notes to 2 separate mailing lists where the discussion would be fragmented.
>> Don't tag the question with every technology that your app uses. Try to
>> narrow down to the ones you think are relevant to the question. Don't tag
>> every Grails question with both "grails" and "groovy". If it really is just
>> a question about the framework just use "grails". The same goes with other
>> technologies like hibernate,
>
> jquery or anything else that you might happen to be using in Grails app.
>>
>>
>> To monitor activity on StackOverflow you have a number of options. One of
>> course is to visit http://www.stackoverflow.com with your browser. Another
>> that works well for me is I take advantage of RSS feeds like
>> http://stackoverflow.com/feeds/tag?tagnames=grails&sort=newest. I collect
>> all of the feeds I am interested in watching in my http://feedly.com/
>> account and I use Reeder (http://reederapp.com/) on my desktop, laptop and
>> all of my mobile devices and associated Reeder with my Feedly account. All
>> of that was very simple to setup and works well for me but there is no
>> reason you have to use any of that to participate on StackOverflow.
>>
>> StackOverflow is designed specifically for asking technical questions.
>> For other discussions about the framework we have created a Google Group at
>> http://groups.google.com/d/forum/grails-dev-discuss. The intent of the
>> group is to provide a forum for discussions about the framework similar to
>> what the Grails Dev mailing list (as distinct from the Grails User mailing
>> list) has historically been used for. The Grails Dev list is being
>> deprecated as well. As with the Grails User list, please only use the
>> Grails Dev list to respond to existing threads. Please do not create any
>> new threads on the Grails Dev list and please do not respond to any newly
>> created threads on the Grails Dev list.
>>
>> Another point of interest, in case you aren’t aware of it, The Groovy
>> Weekly is available
>> http://us4.campaign-archive1.com/home/?u=cb8b56e9d6a1cb1696cecc673&id=1a76961630.
>> That is another great resource to keep an eye on what is going on in the
>> Groovy community in general.
>>
>> We anticipate that moving our technical question support channel to
>> StackOverflow is going to provide a big benefit for the community. Thanks
>> for all of your help.
>>
>>
>>
>> JSB
>>
>> —
>> Jeff Scott Brown
>> ***@gopivotal.com
>>
>> Find The Cause ~ Find The Cure
>> http://www.autismspeaks.org/
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe from this list, please visit:
>>
>> http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
>>
>>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this list, please visit:
>
> http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
>
>



--
Graeme Rocher
Grails Project Lead
SpringSource

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[Jeff Scott Brown]

On May 9, 2014 at 6:47:54 AM, zyro (***@zyro.net) wrote:
> and what is your plan for announcements or more general questions (e.g.
> regarding the next grails release or the state of a plugin and alike)?
>
> i really, really hope this will not backfire and cause even more
> fragmentation of information.
> 

See Graeme’s response.

I don’t see how this could cause even more fragmentation.  Technical questions go to StackOverflow and announcements and more general discussions go to the Google Group.  There will be things that come up that may be in the grey area but surely we will have less fragmentation than before, not more.  There was no delineation at all about what went to the user list and what went to StackOverflow before.  Those 2 served the same purpose.  That was a problem.



JSB
—
Jeff Scott Brown
***@gopivotal.com

Find The Cause ~ Find The Cure
http://www.autismspeaks.org/



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[Brad Rhoads]

Will there be an archive someplace? There's a lot of good information here for Google searches to provide.

—
Sent from Mailbox

On Fri, May 9, 2014 at 3:54 AM, Jeff Scott Brown <***@gopivotal.com>
wrote:

> Attention Grails Users:
> The Grails user mailing lists have served us well for a long time but it is time for us to move away from them.  One of the motivations for the move is the role that StackOverflow has taken on for us.  StackOverflow has a lot of great features to offer over and above what we get from the mailing list and a lot of folks have migrated over there anyway for asking Grails questions.  As it is right now the support channel is bisected with some questions being posted to the mailing list and some questions being posted to StackOverflow.  Some questions are being posted in both places.  A more efficient and productive way to move forward is for us to have 1 place for users to post technical questions about using the framework and effective immediately, that one place will be StackOverflow.  We have not decided how long the Grails User mailing list will be kept alive but it is out there for now and will stay for the time being.  The only thing that you should use the Grails User mailing list for at this point is responding to already existing ongoing threads.  Please do not start any new threads and please do not respond to any newly created threads.  All technical questions about using the framework should be posted to StackOverflow. 
> When posting questions to StackOverflow please tag the questions with "grails" if your intent is to attract the attention of the Grails core developers and members of the community who are interested in monitoring those questions.  If you aren't sure if a question is really Grails related tag it with "grails" and any other tags that you think might be relevant.  This is one of the numerous benefits that StackOverflow is going to offer.  Right now if you wanted to target a question to both the Grails community and the Groovy community, there is no good way to do that without posting notes to 2 separate mailing lists where the discussion would be fragmented.  Don't tag the question with every technology that your app uses.  Try to narrow down to the ones you think are relevant to the question.  Don't tag every Grails question with both "grails" and "groovy".  If it really is just a question about the framework just use "grails".  The same goes with other technologies like hibernate, jquery or anything else that you might happen to be using in Grails app. 
> To monitor activity on StackOverflow you have a number of options.  One of course is to visit http://www.stackoverflow.com with your browser.  Another that works well for me is I take advantage of RSS feeds like http://stackoverflow.com/feeds/tag?tagnames=grails&sort=newest.  I collect all of the feeds I am interested in watching in my http://feedly.com/ account and I use Reeder (http://reederapp.com/) on my desktop, laptop and all of my mobile devices and associated Reeder with my Feedly account.  All of that was very simple to setup and works well for me but there is no reason you have to use any of that to participate on StackOverflow. 
> StackOverflow is designed specifically for asking technical questions.  For other discussions about the framework we have created a Google Group at http://groups.google.com/d/forum/grails-dev-discuss.  The intent of the group is to provide a forum for discussions about the framework similar to what the Grails Dev mailing list (as distinct from the Grails User mailing list) has historically been used for.  The Grails Dev list is being deprecated as well.  As with the Grails User list, please only use the Grails Dev list to respond to existing threads.  Please do not create any new threads on the Grails Dev list and please do not respond to any newly created threads on the Grails Dev list. 
> Another point of interest, in case you aren’t aware of it, The Groovy Weekly is available http://us4.campaign-archive1.com/home/?u=cb8b56e9d6a1cb1696cecc673&id=1a76961630.  That is another great resource to keep an eye on what is going on in the Groovy community in general.
> We anticipate that moving our technical question support channel to StackOverflow is going to provide a big benefit for the community.  Thanks for all of your help.
> JSB
> —
> Jeff Scott Brown
> ***@gopivotal.com
> Find The Cause ~ Find The Cure
> http://www.autismspeaks.org/
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this list, please visit:
> http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email

[Graeme Rocher]

The nabble archive will continue to exist

On Fri, May 9, 2014 at 3:26 PM, Brad Rhoads <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> Will there be an archive someplace? There's a lot of good information here
> for Google searches to provide.
> —
> Sent from Mailbox
>
>
> On Fri, May 9, 2014 at 3:54 AM, Jeff Scott Brown <***@gopivotal.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> Attention Grails Users:
>>
>> The Grails user mailing lists have served us well for a long time but it
>> is time for us to move away from them. One of the motivations for the move
>> is the role that StackOverflow has taken on for us. StackOverflow has a lot
>> of great features to offer over and above what we get from the mailing list
>> and a lot of folks have migrated over there anyway for asking Grails
>> questions. As it is right now the support channel is bisected with some
>> questions being posted to the mailing list and some questions being posted
>> to StackOverflow. Some questions are being posted in both places. A more
>> efficient and productive way to move forward is for us to have 1 place for
>> users to post technical questions about using the framework and effective
>> immediately, that one place will be StackOverflow. We have not decided how
>> long the Grails User mailing list will be kept alive but it is out there for
>> now and will stay for the time being. The only thing that you should use
>> the Grails User mailing list for at this point is responding to already
>> existing ongoing threads. Please do not start any new threads and please do
>> not respond to any newly created threads. All technical questions about
>> using the framework should be posted to StackOverflow.
>>
>> When posting questions to StackOverflow please tag the questions with
>> "grails" if your intent is to attract the attention of the Grails core
>> developers and members of the community who are interested in monitoring
>> those questions. If you aren't sure if a question is really Grails related
>> tag it with "grails" and any other tags that you think might be relevant.
>> This is one of the numerous benefits that StackOverflow is going to offer.
>> Right now if you wanted to target a question to both the Grails community
>> and the Groovy community, there is no good way to do that without posting
>> notes to 2 separate mailing lists where the discussion would be fragmented.
>> Don't tag the question with every technology that your app uses. Try to
>> narrow down to the ones you think are relevant to the question. Don't tag
>> every Grails question with both "grails" and "groovy". If it really is just
>> a question about the framework just use "grails". The same goes with other
>> technologies like hibernate, jquery or anything else that you might happen
>> to be using in Grails app.
>>
>> To monitor activity on StackOverflow you have a number of options. One of
>> course is to visit http://www.stackoverflow.com with your browser. Another
>> that works well for me is I take advantage of RSS feeds like
>> http://stackoverflow.com/feeds/tag?tagnames=grails&sort=newest. I collect
>> all of the feeds I am interested in watching in my http://feedly.com/
>> account and I use Reeder (http://reederapp.com/) on my desktop, laptop and
>> all of my mobile devices and associated Reeder with my Feedly account. All
>> of that was very simple to setup and works well for me but there is no
>> reason you have to use any of that to participate on StackOverflow.
>>
>> StackOverflow is designed specifically for asking technical questions.
>> For other discussions about the framework we have created a Google Group at
>> http://groups.google.com/d/forum/grails-dev-discuss. The intent of the
>> group is to provide a forum for discussions about the framework similar to
>> what the Grails Dev mailing list (as distinct from the Grails User mailing
>> list) has historically been used for. The Grails Dev list is being
>> deprecated as well. As with the Grails User list, please only use the
>> Grails Dev list to respond to existing threads. Please do not create any
>> new threads on the Grails Dev list and please do not respond to any newly
>> created threads on the Grails Dev list.
>>
>> Another point of interest, in case you aren’t aware of it, The Groovy
>> Weekly is available
>> http://us4.campaign-archive1.com/home/?u=cb8b56e9d6a1cb1696cecc673&id=1a76961630.
>> That is another great resource to keep an eye on what is going on in the
>> Groovy community in general.
>>
>> We anticipate that moving our technical question support channel to
>> StackOverflow is going to provide a big benefit for the community. Thanks
>> for all of your help.
>>
>>
>>
>> JSB
>>
>> —
>> Jeff Scott Brown
>> ***@gopivotal.com
>>
>> Find The Cause ~ Find The Cure
>> http://www.autismspeaks.org/
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe from this list, please visit:
>>
>> http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
>>
>>
>



--
Graeme Rocher
Grails Project Lead
SpringSource

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[Owen Rubel]

all in favor of a grails usenet group say 'comp.lang.groovy' and
'comp.lang.grails' :)



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[Eric MacAdie]

'comp.lang.groovy' and
'comp.lang.grails' :)


On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 10:47 AM, Owen Rubel <***@gmail.com> wrote:

> all in favor of a grails usenet group say 'comp.lang.groovy' and
> 'comp.lang.grails' :)
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://grails.1312388.n4.nabble.com/Deprecating-The-Grails-Mailing-Lists-tp4656735p4656850.html
> Sent from the Grails - user mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this list, please visit:
>
> http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
>
>
>

[Rainer Frey]

Hi,
why not create a Grails Users google group? Stackoverflow is so limited by
its strict format that requires questions that have "right" answers and
don't allow for any debate. There are open questions/discussions on how to
best achieve certain things with grails that are no suitable for
Stackoverflow yet are not related to the development of the framework
itself and would not have been appropriate for the dev mailing list.


On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 4:42 AM, Eric MacAdie <***@gmail.com> wrote:

> 'comp.lang.groovy' and
> 'comp.lang.grails' :)
>
>
> On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 10:47 AM, Owen Rubel <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> all in favor of a grails usenet group say 'comp.lang.groovy' and
>> 'comp.lang.grails' :)
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> View this message in context:
>> http://grails.1312388.n4.nabble.com/Deprecating-The-Grails-Mailing-Lists-tp4656735p4656850.html
>> Sent from the Grails - user mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe from this list, please visit:
>>
>> http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
>>
>>
>>
>

[Robert Oschwald]

+1

Am 14.05.2014 um 11:53 schrieb Rainer Frey <***@gmail.com>:

> Hi,
> why not create a Grails Users google group? Stackoverflow is so limited by its strict format that requires questions that have "right" answers and don't allow for any debate. There are open questions/discussions on how to best achieve certain things with grails that are no suitable for Stackoverflow yet are not related to the development of the framework itself and would not have been appropriate for the dev mailing list.
>
>
> On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 4:42 AM, Eric MacAdie <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> 'comp.lang.groovy' and
> 'comp.lang.grails' :)
>
>
> On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 10:47 AM, Owen Rubel <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> all in favor of a grails usenet group say 'comp.lang.groovy' and
> 'comp.lang.grails' :)
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://grails.1312388.n4.nabble.com/Deprecating-The-Grails-Mailing-Lists-tp4656735p4656850.html
> Sent from the Grails - user mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this list, please visit:
>
> http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
>
>
>
>

[Bob Brown]

I like this idea, so +1 from me.

What often bothers me about Stackoverflow is that the signal to noise ratio
can be very small.

One often sees unchallenged responses in abandoned questions that are
hopelessly wrong, out of date or misleading. There's no curating happening
but everything comes up in searches and so on with equal weight.

Somehow, in a list (even a searchable, archived one) things get a lifetime
and pass out of the window of current-ness (hope that makes sense).

Plus, one often gets drive-by 'contributors' with axes to grind ("You
shouldn't be doing it in Grails! Use Super-Duper XYZ v3.7.9.4.1.alpha
Framework instead! It can do reverse Polish database access better than
anything else!" or "I tried Grails once. It didn't work efficiently on my
8086 minix laptop, so it's clearly a P.O.S.. Bash scripting FTW! I mean, I
handle _tens_ of requests per minute on my box <grin>").

Again, this seems to happen less in a list.

The cumulative effect has the potential to constitute bad PR for Grails,
IM(NS)HO.

There's my AUD$0.02c.

Whether this is a contribution to signal or noise is up in the air, I
guess...

BOB
Should I don an asbestos suite?

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Robert Oschwald [mailto:***@googlemail.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, 14 May 2014 8:29 PM
> To: ***@grails.codehaus.org ***@grails.codehaus.org
> Subject: Re: [grails-user] Re: Deprecating The Grails Mailing Lists
>
> +1
>
> Am 14.05.2014 um 11:53 schrieb Rainer Frey <***@gmail.com>:
>
>
> Hi,
> why not create a Grails Users google group? Stackoverflow is so
> limited by its strict format that requires questions that have "right"
answers
> and don't allow for any debate. There are open questions/discussions on
> how to best achieve certain things with grails that are no suitable for
> Stackoverflow yet are not related to the development of the framework
> itself and would not have been appropriate for the dev mailing list.
>
>
> On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 4:42 AM, Eric MacAdie
> <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> 'comp.lang.groovy' and
> 'comp.lang.grails' :)
>
>
> On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 10:47 AM, Owen Rubel
> <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> all in favor of a grails usenet group say
> 'comp.lang.groovy' and
> 'comp.lang.grails' :)
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://grails.1312388.n4.nabble.com/Deprecating-The-Grails-Mailing-Lists-
> tp4656735p4656850.html
> Sent from the Grails - user mailing list archive at
> Nabble.com.
>
>
>
-----------------------------------------------------------------
> ----
> To unsubscribe from this list, please visit:
>
> http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
>
>
>
>
>
>




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[Mihai Cazacu]

+1 from me, also.


On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 1:44 PM, Bob Brown <***@transentia.com.au> wrote:

> I like this idea, so +1 from me.
>
> What often bothers me about Stackoverflow is that the signal to noise ratio
> can be very small.
>
> One often sees unchallenged responses in abandoned questions that are
> hopelessly wrong, out of date or misleading. There's no curating happening
> but everything comes up in searches and so on with equal weight.
>
> Somehow, in a list (even a searchable, archived one) things get a lifetime
> and pass out of the window of current-ness (hope that makes sense).
>
> Plus, one often gets drive-by 'contributors' with axes to grind ("You
> shouldn't be doing it in Grails! Use Super-Duper XYZ v3.7.9.4.1.alpha
> Framework instead! It can do reverse Polish database access better than
> anything else!" or "I tried Grails once. It didn't work efficiently on my
> 8086 minix laptop, so it's clearly a P.O.S.. Bash scripting FTW! I mean, I
> handle _tens_ of requests per minute on my box <grin>").
>
> Again, this seems to happen less in a list.
>
> The cumulative effect has the potential to constitute bad PR for Grails,
> IM(NS)HO.
>
> There's my AUD$0.02c.
>
> Whether this is a contribution to signal or noise is up in the air, I
> guess...
>
> BOB
> Should I don an asbestos suite?
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Robert Oschwald [mailto:***@googlemail.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, 14 May 2014 8:29 PM
> > To: ***@grails.codehaus.org ***@grails.codehaus.org
> > Subject: Re: [grails-user] Re: Deprecating The Grails Mailing Lists
> >
> > +1
> >
> > Am 14.05.2014 um 11:53 schrieb Rainer Frey <***@gmail.com>:
> >
> >
> > Hi,
> > why not create a Grails Users google group? Stackoverflow is so
> > limited by its strict format that requires questions that have "right"
> answers
> > and don't allow for any debate. There are open questions/discussions on
> > how to best achieve certain things with grails that are no suitable for
> > Stackoverflow yet are not related to the development of the framework
> > itself and would not have been appropriate for the dev mailing list.
> >
> >
> > On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 4:42 AM, Eric MacAdie
> > <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > 'comp.lang.groovy' and
> > 'comp.lang.grails' :)
> >
> >
> > On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 10:47 AM, Owen Rubel
> > <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > all in favor of a grails usenet group say
> > 'comp.lang.groovy' and
> > 'comp.lang.grails' :)
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > View this message in context:
> >
> http://grails.1312388.n4.nabble.com/Deprecating-The-Grails-Mailing-Lists-
> > tp4656735p4656850.html
> > Sent from the Grails - user mailing list archive at
> > Nabble.com.
> >
> >
> >
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> > ----
> > To unsubscribe from this list, please visit:
> >
> > http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this list, please visit:
>
> http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
>
>
>


--
Mihai Cazacu
Software Engineer
E-mail: ***@gmail.com
Mobile: [phone]
Linkedin: cazacugmihai <http://www.linkedin.com/in/cazacugmihai>
Skype: cazacugmihai
Twitter: cazacugmihai

[Graeme Rocher]

I think that the "Grails-Dev-Discuss' group can serve as a channel for
discussion too (hence the name)

It is technical/support questions that we want on Stack Overflow from
now on, but feel free to discuss features or plugins on
'Grails-Dev-Discuss'

Cheers

On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 12:44 PM, Bob Brown <***@transentia.com.au> wrote:
> I like this idea, so +1 from me.
>
> What often bothers me about Stackoverflow is that the signal to noise ratio
> can be very small.
>
> One often sees unchallenged responses in abandoned questions that are
> hopelessly wrong, out of date or misleading. There's no curating happening
> but everything comes up in searches and so on with equal weight.
>
> Somehow, in a list (even a searchable, archived one) things get a lifetime
> and pass out of the window of current-ness (hope that makes sense).
>
> Plus, one often gets drive-by 'contributors' with axes to grind ("You
> shouldn't be doing it in Grails! Use Super-Duper XYZ v3.7.9.4.1.alpha
> Framework instead! It can do reverse Polish database access better than
> anything else!" or "I tried Grails once. It didn't work efficiently on my
> 8086 minix laptop, so it's clearly a P.O.S.. Bash scripting FTW! I mean, I
> handle _tens_ of requests per minute on my box <grin>").
>
> Again, this seems to happen less in a list.
>
> The cumulative effect has the potential to constitute bad PR for Grails,
> IM(NS)HO.
>
> There's my AUD$0.02c.
>
> Whether this is a contribution to signal or noise is up in the air, I
> guess...
>
> BOB
> Should I don an asbestos suite?
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Robert Oschwald [mailto:***@googlemail.com]
>> Sent: Wednesday, 14 May 2014 8:29 PM
>> To: ***@grails.codehaus.org ***@grails.codehaus.org
>> Subject: Re: [grails-user] Re: Deprecating The Grails Mailing Lists
>>
>> +1
>>
>> Am 14.05.2014 um 11:53 schrieb Rainer Frey <***@gmail.com>:
>>
>>
>> Hi,
>> why not create a Grails Users google group? Stackoverflow is so
>> limited by its strict format that requires questions that have "right"
> answers
>> and don't allow for any debate. There are open questions/discussions on
>> how to best achieve certain things with grails that are no suitable for
>> Stackoverflow yet are not related to the development of the framework
>> itself and would not have been appropriate for the dev mailing list.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 4:42 AM, Eric MacAdie
>> <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> 'comp.lang.groovy' and
>> 'comp.lang.grails' :)
>>
>>
>> On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 10:47 AM, Owen Rubel
>> <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> all in favor of a grails usenet group say
>> 'comp.lang.groovy' and
>> 'comp.lang.grails' :)
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> View this message in context:
>> http://grails.1312388.n4.nabble.com/Deprecating-The-Grails-Mailing-Lists-
>> tp4656735p4656850.html
>> Sent from the Grails - user mailing list archive at
>> Nabble.com.
>>
>>
>>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>> ----
>> To unsubscribe from this list, please visit:
>>
>> http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this list, please visit:
>
> http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
>
>



--
Graeme Rocher
Grails Project Lead
SpringSource

---------------------------------------------------------------------
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[Harlan H. Bloom]

I've seen recently that more and more technical groups are getting away from mailing lists. I personally like the mailing lists because I can actually read them when I'm offline.

I commute to work using public transportation. This is almost the only time that I have available to try and keep up with current technology or interests. While on the buses, I almost never have access to the internet. Forums are not convenient at all. Plus all my interests are in one place, instead of having to jump from one site to another all day long.

I do have a smartphone and I do tether my computer to the phone. However, I also have a limited amount of usage for each month. If I had to stay online to scan all the different forums, I wouldn't be able to afford my phone bill.

I realize I'm in the severe minority on this topic, especially since I'm not a regular contributor.

Please keep the email groups somehow.

Thanks,

Harlan...

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Brown" <***@transentia.com.au>
To: ***@grails.codehaus.org
Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2014 5:44:40 AM
Subject: RE: [grails-user] Re: Deprecating The Grails Mailing Lists

I like this idea, so +1 from me.

What often bothers me about Stackoverflow is that the signal to noise ratio
can be very small.

One often sees unchallenged responses in abandoned questions that are
hopelessly wrong, out of date or misleading. There's no curating happening
but everything comes up in searches and so on with equal weight.

Somehow, in a list (even a searchable, archived one) things get a lifetime
and pass out of the window of current-ness (hope that makes sense).

Plus, one often gets drive-by 'contributors' with axes to grind ("You
shouldn't be doing it in Grails! Use Super-Duper XYZ v3.7.9.4.1.alpha
Framework instead! It can do reverse Polish database access better than
anything else!" or "I tried Grails once. It didn't work efficiently on my
8086 minix laptop, so it's clearly a P.O.S.. Bash scripting FTW! I mean, I
handle _tens_ of requests per minute on my box <grin>").

Again, this seems to happen less in a list.

The cumulative effect has the potential to constitute bad PR for Grails,
IM(NS)HO.

There's my AUD$0.02c.

Whether this is a contribution to signal or noise is up in the air, I
guess...

BOB
Should I don an asbestos suite?

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Robert Oschwald [mailto:***@googlemail.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, 14 May 2014 8:29 PM
> To: ***@grails.codehaus.org ***@grails.codehaus.org
> Subject: Re: [grails-user] Re: Deprecating The Grails Mailing Lists
>
> +1
>
> Am 14.05.2014 um 11:53 schrieb Rainer Frey <***@gmail.com>:
>
>
> Hi,
> why not create a Grails Users google group? Stackoverflow is so
> limited by its strict format that requires questions that have "right"
answers
> and don't allow for any debate. There are open questions/discussions on
> how to best achieve certain things with grails that are no suitable for
> Stackoverflow yet are not related to the development of the framework
> itself and would not have been appropriate for the dev mailing list.
>
>
> On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 4:42 AM, Eric MacAdie
> <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> 'comp.lang.groovy' and
> 'comp.lang.grails' :)
>
>
> On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 10:47 AM, Owen Rubel
> <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> all in favor of a grails usenet group say
> 'comp.lang.groovy' and
> 'comp.lang.grails' :)
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://grails.1312388.n4.nabble.com/Deprecating-The-Grails-Mailing-Lists-
> tp4656735p4656850.html
> Sent from the Grails - user mailing list archive at
> Nabble.com.
>
>
>
-----------------------------------------------------------------
> ----
> To unsubscribe from this list, please visit:
>
> http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
>
>
>
>
>
>




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[José Vilmar Estácio de Souza]

+1.
Another point in favor of the mailing list is accessibility.

The forums do not always have a very good accessibility, which makes it
a little more difficult to access by blind people like me
Thanks.

On 05/14/2014 10:26 AM, Harlan H. Bloom wrote:
> I've seen recently that more and more technical groups are getting away from mailing lists. I personally like the mailing lists because I can actually read them when I'm offline.
>
> I commute to work using public transportation. This is almost the only time that I have available to try and keep up with current technology or interests. While on the buses, I almost never have access to the internet. Forums are not convenient at all. Plus all my interests are in one place, instead of having to jump from one site to another all day long.
>
> I do have a smartphone and I do tether my computer to the phone. However, I also have a limited amount of usage for each month. If I had to stay online to scan all the different forums, I wouldn't be able to afford my phone bill.
>
> I realize I'm in the severe minority on this topic, especially since I'm not a regular contributor.
>
> Please keep the email groups somehow.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Harlan...
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bob Brown" <***@transentia.com.au>
> To: ***@grails.codehaus.org
> Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2014 5:44:40 AM
> Subject: RE: [grails-user] Re: Deprecating The Grails Mailing Lists
>
> I like this idea, so +1 from me.
>
> What often bothers me about Stackoverflow is that the signal to noise ratio
> can be very small.
>
> One often sees unchallenged responses in abandoned questions that are
> hopelessly wrong, out of date or misleading. There's no curating happening
> but everything comes up in searches and so on with equal weight.
>
> Somehow, in a list (even a searchable, archived one) things get a lifetime
> and pass out of the window of current-ness (hope that makes sense).
>
> Plus, one often gets drive-by 'contributors' with axes to grind ("You
> shouldn't be doing it in Grails! Use Super-Duper XYZ v3.7.9.4.1.alpha
> Framework instead! It can do reverse Polish database access better than
> anything else!" or "I tried Grails once. It didn't work efficiently on my
> 8086 minix laptop, so it's clearly a P.O.S.. Bash scripting FTW! I mean, I
> handle _tens_ of requests per minute on my box <grin>").
>
> Again, this seems to happen less in a list.
>
> The cumulative effect has the potential to constitute bad PR for Grails,
> IM(NS)HO.
>
> There's my AUD$0.02c.
>
> Whether this is a contribution to signal or noise is up in the air, I
> guess...
>
> BOB
> Should I don an asbestos suite?
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Robert Oschwald [mailto:***@googlemail.com]
>> Sent: Wednesday, 14 May 2014 8:29 PM
>> To: ***@grails.codehaus.org ***@grails.codehaus.org
>> Subject: Re: [grails-user] Re: Deprecating The Grails Mailing Lists
>>
>> +1
>>
>> Am 14.05.2014 um 11:53 schrieb Rainer Frey <***@gmail.com>:
>>
>>
>> Hi,
>> why not create a Grails Users google group? Stackoverflow is so
>> limited by its strict format that requires questions that have "right"
> answers
>> and don't allow for any debate. There are open questions/discussions on
>> how to best achieve certain things with grails that are no suitable for
>> Stackoverflow yet are not related to the development of the framework
>> itself and would not have been appropriate for the dev mailing list.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 4:42 AM, Eric MacAdie
>> <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> 'comp.lang.groovy' and
>> 'comp.lang.grails' :)
>>
>>
>> On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 10:47 AM, Owen Rubel
>> <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> all in favor of a grails usenet group say
>> 'comp.lang.groovy' and
>> 'comp.lang.grails' :)
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> View this message in context:
>> http://grails.1312388.n4.nabble.com/Deprecating-The-Grails-Mailing-Lists-
>> tp4656735p4656850.html
>> Sent from the Grails - user mailing list archive at
>> Nabble.com.
>>
>>
>>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>> ----
>> To unsubscribe from this list, please visit:
>>
>> http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this list, please visit:
>
> http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this list, please visit:
>
> http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
>
>
>

--
{}S José Vilmar Estácio de Souza

---------------------------------------------------------------------
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[David Estes]

Most forums have RSS feeds. You can always use these tied into an RSS reeder to sink the content for offline viewing.

--
David Estes

On May 14, 2014 at 10:18:17 AM, José Vilmar Estácio de Souza (***@informal.com.br) wrote:

+1.
Another point in favor of the mailing list is accessibility.

The forums do not always have a very good accessibility, which makes it
a little more difficult to access by blind people like me
Thanks.

On 05/14/2014 10:26 AM, Harlan H. Bloom wrote:
> I've seen recently that more and more technical groups are getting away from mailing lists. I personally like the mailing lists because I can actually read them when I'm offline.
>
> I commute to work using public transportation. This is almost the only time that I have available to try and keep up with current technology or interests. While on the buses, I almost never have access to the internet. Forums are not convenient at all. Plus all my interests are in one place, instead of having to jump from one site to another all day long.
>
> I do have a smartphone and I do tether my computer to the phone. However, I also have a limited amount of usage for each month. If I had to stay online to scan all the different forums, I wouldn't be able to afford my phone bill.
>
> I realize I'm in the severe minority on this topic, especially since I'm not a regular contributor.
>
> Please keep the email groups somehow.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Harlan...
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bob Brown" <***@transentia.com.au>
> To: ***@grails.codehaus.org
> Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2014 5:44:40 AM
> Subject: RE: [grails-user] Re: Deprecating The Grails Mailing Lists
>
> I like this idea, so +1 from me.
>
> What often bothers me about Stackoverflow is that the signal to noise ratio
> can be very small.
>
> One often sees unchallenged responses in abandoned questions that are
> hopelessly wrong, out of date or misleading. There's no curating happening
> but everything comes up in searches and so on with equal weight.
>
> Somehow, in a list (even a searchable, archived one) things get a lifetime
> and pass out of the window of current-ness (hope that makes sense).
>
> Plus, one often gets drive-by 'contributors' with axes to grind ("You
> shouldn't be doing it in Grails! Use Super-Duper XYZ v3.7.9.4.1.alpha
> Framework instead! It can do reverse Polish database access better than
> anything else!" or "I tried Grails once. It didn't work efficiently on my
> 8086 minix laptop, so it's clearly a P.O.S.. Bash scripting FTW! I mean, I
> handle _tens_ of requests per minute on my box <grin>").
>
> Again, this seems to happen less in a list.
>
> The cumulative effect has the potential to constitute bad PR for Grails,
> IM(NS)HO.
>
> There's my AUD$0.02c.
>
> Whether this is a contribution to signal or noise is up in the air, I
> guess...
>
> BOB
> Should I don an asbestos suite?
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Robert Oschwald [mailto:***@googlemail.com]
>> Sent: Wednesday, 14 May 2014 8:29 PM
>> To: ***@grails.codehaus.org ***@grails.codehaus.org
>> Subject: Re: [grails-user] Re: Deprecating The Grails Mailing Lists
>>
>> +1
>>
>> Am 14.05.2014 um 11:53 schrieb Rainer Frey <***@gmail.com>:
>>
>>
>> Hi,
>> why not create a Grails Users google group? Stackoverflow is so
>> limited by its strict format that requires questions that have "right"
> answers
>> and don't allow for any debate. There are open questions/discussions on
>> how to best achieve certain things with grails that are no suitable for
>> Stackoverflow yet are not related to the development of the framework
>> itself and would not have been appropriate for the dev mailing list.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 4:42 AM, Eric MacAdie
>> <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> 'comp.lang.groovy' and
>> 'comp.lang.grails' :)
>>
>>
>> On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 10:47 AM, Owen Rubel
>> <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> all in favor of a grails usenet group say
>> 'comp.lang.groovy' and
>> 'comp.lang.grails' :)
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> View this message in context:
>> http://grails.1312388.n4.nabble.com/Deprecating-The-Grails-Mailing-Lists-
>> tp4656735p4656850.html
>> Sent from the Grails - user mailing list archive at
>> Nabble.com.
>>
>>
>>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>> ----
>> To unsubscribe from this list, please visit:
>>
>> http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this list, please visit:
>
> http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>
>

--
{}S José Vilmar Estácio de Souza

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[Eric MacAdie]

I agree that there should be a mailing list for Grails.

= Eric MacAdie



On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 9:18 AM, José Vilmar Estácio de Souza <
***@informal.com.br> wrote:

> +1.
> Another point in favor of the mailing list is accessibility.
>
> The forums do not always have a very good accessibility, which makes it a
> little more difficult to access by blind people like me
> Thanks.
>
>
> On 05/14/2014 10:26 AM, Harlan H. Bloom wrote:
>
>> I've seen recently that more and more technical groups are getting away
>> from mailing lists. I personally like the mailing lists because I can
>> actually read them when I'm offline.
>>
>> I commute to work using public transportation. This is almost the only
>> time that I have available to try and keep up with current technology or
>> interests. While on the buses, I almost never have access to the internet.
>> Forums are not convenient at all. Plus all my interests are in one place,
>> instead of having to jump from one site to another all day long.
>>
>> I do have a smartphone and I do tether my computer to the phone.
>> However, I also have a limited amount of usage for each month. If I had
>> to stay online to scan all the different forums, I wouldn't be able to
>> afford my phone bill.
>>
>> I realize I'm in the severe minority on this topic, especially since I'm
>> not a regular contributor.
>>
>> Please keep the email groups somehow.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Harlan...
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Bob Brown" <***@transentia.com.au>
>> To: ***@grails.codehaus.org
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2014 5:44:40 AM
>> Subject: RE: [grails-user] Re: Deprecating The Grails Mailing Lists
>>
>> I like this idea, so +1 from me.
>>
>> What often bothers me about Stackoverflow is that the signal to noise
>> ratio
>> can be very small.
>>
>> One often sees unchallenged responses in abandoned questions that are
>> hopelessly wrong, out of date or misleading. There's no curating happening
>> but everything comes up in searches and so on with equal weight.
>>
>> Somehow, in a list (even a searchable, archived one) things get a lifetime
>> and pass out of the window of current-ness (hope that makes sense).
>>
>> Plus, one often gets drive-by 'contributors' with axes to grind ("You
>> shouldn't be doing it in Grails! Use Super-Duper XYZ v3.7.9.4.1.alpha
>> Framework instead! It can do reverse Polish database access better than
>> anything else!" or "I tried Grails once. It didn't work efficiently on my
>> 8086 minix laptop, so it's clearly a P.O.S.. Bash scripting FTW! I mean, I
>> handle _tens_ of requests per minute on my box <grin>").
>>
>> Again, this seems to happen less in a list.
>>
>> The cumulative effect has the potential to constitute bad PR for Grails,
>> IM(NS)HO.
>>
>> There's my AUD$0.02c.
>>
>> Whether this is a contribution to signal or noise is up in the air, I
>> guess...
>>
>> BOB
>> Should I don an asbestos suite?
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Robert Oschwald [mailto:***@googlemail.com]
>>> Sent: Wednesday, 14 May 2014 8:29 PM
>>> To: ***@grails.codehaus.org ***@grails.codehaus.org
>>> Subject: Re: [grails-user] Re: Deprecating The Grails Mailing Lists
>>>
>>> +1
>>>
>>> Am 14.05.2014 um 11:53 schrieb Rainer Frey <***@gmail.com>:
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>> why not create a Grails Users google group? Stackoverflow is so
>>> limited by its strict format that requires questions that have "right"
>>>
>> answers
>>
>>> and don't allow for any debate. There are open questions/discussions on
>>> how to best achieve certain things with grails that are no suitable for
>>> Stackoverflow yet are not related to the development of the framework
>>> itself and would not have been appropriate for the dev mailing list.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 4:42 AM, Eric MacAdie
>>> <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> 'comp.lang.groovy' and
>>> 'comp.lang.grails' :)
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 10:47 AM, Owen Rubel
>>> <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> all in favor of a grails usenet group say
>>> 'comp.lang.groovy' and
>>> 'comp.lang.grails' :)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> View this message in context:
>>> http://grails.1312388.n4.nabble.com/Deprecating-The-
>>> Grails-Mailing-Lists-
>>> tp4656735p4656850.html
>>> Sent from the Grails - user mailing list archive
>>> at
>>> Nabble.com.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>> ----
>>> To unsubscribe from this list, please visit:
>>>
>>> http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe from this list, please visit:
>>
>> http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe from this list, please visit:
>>
>> http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
>>
>>
>>
>>
> --
> {}S José Vilmar Estácio de Souza
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this list, please visit:
>
> http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
>
>
>

[Graeme Rocher]

And there is, it is at
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/grails-dev-discuss

But it isn't for usage questions, only for discussion around the
framework. Folks can still catch up with the later discussion around
the development of the framework and its plugins in
'grails-dev-discuss' (offline or online)

Stack Overflow, however, is a better forum for usage questions and
makes answers easier to find on Google than a mailing list does.

Cheers

On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 2:50 AM, Eric MacAdie <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> I agree that there should be a mailing list for Grails.
>
> = Eric MacAdie
>
>
>
> On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 9:18 AM, José Vilmar Estácio de Souza
> <***@informal.com.br> wrote:
>>
>> +1.
>> Another point in favor of the mailing list is accessibility.
>>
>> The forums do not always have a very good accessibility, which makes it a
>> little more difficult to access by blind people like me
>> Thanks.
>>
>>
>> On 05/14/2014 10:26 AM, Harlan H. Bloom wrote:
>>>
>>> I've seen recently that more and more technical groups are getting away
>>> from mailing lists. I personally like the mailing lists because I can
>>> actually read them when I'm offline.
>>>
>>> I commute to work using public transportation. This is almost the only
>>> time that I have available to try and keep up with current technology or
>>> interests. While on the buses, I almost never have access to the internet.
>>> Forums are not convenient at all. Plus all my interests are in one place,
>>> instead of having to jump from one site to another all day long.
>>>
>>> I do have a smartphone and I do tether my computer to the phone.
>>> However, I also have a limited amount of usage for each month. If I had to
>>> stay online to scan all the different forums, I wouldn't be able to afford
>>> my phone bill.
>>>
>>> I realize I'm in the severe minority on this topic, especially since I'm
>>> not a regular contributor.
>>>
>>> Please keep the email groups somehow.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Harlan...
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Bob Brown" <***@transentia.com.au>
>>> To: ***@grails.codehaus.org
>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2014 5:44:40 AM
>>> Subject: RE: [grails-user] Re: Deprecating The Grails Mailing Lists
>>>
>>> I like this idea, so +1 from me.
>>>
>>> What often bothers me about Stackoverflow is that the signal to noise
>>> ratio
>>> can be very small.
>>>
>>> One often sees unchallenged responses in abandoned questions that are
>>> hopelessly wrong, out of date or misleading. There's no curating
>>> happening
>>> but everything comes up in searches and so on with equal weight.
>>>
>>> Somehow, in a list (even a searchable, archived one) things get a
>>> lifetime
>>> and pass out of the window of current-ness (hope that makes sense).
>>>
>>> Plus, one often gets drive-by 'contributors' with axes to grind ("You
>>> shouldn't be doing it in Grails! Use Super-Duper XYZ v3.7.9.4.1.alpha
>>> Framework instead! It can do reverse Polish database access better than
>>> anything else!" or "I tried Grails once. It didn't work efficiently on my
>>> 8086 minix laptop, so it's clearly a P.O.S.. Bash scripting FTW! I mean,
>>> I
>>> handle _tens_ of requests per minute on my box <grin>").
>>>
>>> Again, this seems to happen less in a list.
>>>
>>> The cumulative effect has the potential to constitute bad PR for Grails,
>>> IM(NS)HO.
>>>
>>> There's my AUD$0.02c.
>>>
>>> Whether this is a contribution to signal or noise is up in the air, I
>>> guess...
>>>
>>> BOB
>>> Should I don an asbestos suite?
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Robert Oschwald [mailto:***@googlemail.com]
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, 14 May 2014 8:29 PM
>>>> To: ***@grails.codehaus.org ***@grails.codehaus.org
>>>> Subject: Re: [grails-user] Re: Deprecating The Grails Mailing Lists
>>>>
>>>> +1
>>>>
>>>> Am 14.05.2014 um 11:53 schrieb Rainer Frey <***@gmail.com>:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>> why not create a Grails Users google group? Stackoverflow is so
>>>> limited by its strict format that requires questions that have "right"
>>>
>>> answers
>>>>
>>>> and don't allow for any debate. There are open questions/discussions on
>>>> how to best achieve certain things with grails that are no suitable for
>>>> Stackoverflow yet are not related to the development of the framework
>>>> itself and would not have been appropriate for the dev mailing list.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 4:42 AM, Eric MacAdie
>>>> <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 'comp.lang.groovy' and
>>>> 'comp.lang.grails' :)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 10:47 AM, Owen Rubel
>>>> <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> all in favor of a grails usenet group say
>>>> 'comp.lang.groovy' and
>>>> 'comp.lang.grails' :)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> View this message in context:
>>>>
>>>> http://grails.1312388.n4.nabble.com/Deprecating-The-Grails-Mailing-Lists-
>>>> tp4656735p4656850.html
>>>> Sent from the Grails - user mailing list archive
>>>> at
>>>> Nabble.com.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> ----
>>>> To unsubscribe from this list, please visit:
>>>>
>>>> http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe from this list, please visit:
>>>
>>> http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe from this list, please visit:
>>>
>>> http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> {}S José Vilmar Estácio de Souza
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe from this list, please visit:
>>
>> http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
>>
>>
>



--
Graeme Rocher
Grails Project Lead
SpringSource

---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe from this list, please visit:

http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email

[Rainer Frey]

So where should question like "I experience erroneous behavior xy, is this
a bug in grails or am I doing s.th. wrong?" be asked. Per description these
would not really fit into the google group, but would likely be closed as
not constructive on stackoverflow.

Rainer


On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 10:01 AM, Graeme Rocher <***@gmail.com>wrote:

> And there is, it is at
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/grails-dev-discuss
>
> But it isn't for usage questions, only for discussion around the
> framework. Folks can still catch up with the later discussion around
> the development of the framework and its plugins in
> 'grails-dev-discuss' (offline or online)
>
> Stack Overflow, however, is a better forum for usage questions and
> makes answers easier to find on Google than a mailing list does.
>
> Cheers
>
> On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 2:50 AM, Eric MacAdie <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I agree that there should be a mailing list for Grails.
> >
> > = Eric MacAdie
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 9:18 AM, José Vilmar Estácio de Souza
> > <***@informal.com.br> wrote:
> >>
> >> +1.
> >> Another point in favor of the mailing list is accessibility.
> >>
> >> The forums do not always have a very good accessibility, which makes it
> a
> >> little more difficult to access by blind people like me
> >> Thanks.
> >>
> >>
> >> On 05/14/2014 10:26 AM, Harlan H. Bloom wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I've seen recently that more and more technical groups are getting away
> >>> from mailing lists. I personally like the mailing lists because I can
> >>> actually read them when I'm offline.
> >>>
> >>> I commute to work using public transportation. This is almost the only
> >>> time that I have available to try and keep up with current technology
> or
> >>> interests. While on the buses, I almost never have access to the
> internet.
> >>> Forums are not convenient at all. Plus all my interests are in one
> place,
> >>> instead of having to jump from one site to another all day long.
> >>>
> >>> I do have a smartphone and I do tether my computer to the phone.
> >>> However, I also have a limited amount of usage for each month. If I
> had to
> >>> stay online to scan all the different forums, I wouldn't be able to
> afford
> >>> my phone bill.
> >>>
> >>> I realize I'm in the severe minority on this topic, especially since
> I'm
> >>> not a regular contributor.
> >>>
> >>> Please keep the email groups somehow.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>>
> >>> Harlan...
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> From: "Bob Brown" <***@transentia.com.au>
> >>> To: ***@grails.codehaus.org
> >>> Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2014 5:44:40 AM
> >>> Subject: RE: [grails-user] Re: Deprecating The Grails Mailing Lists
> >>>
> >>> I like this idea, so +1 from me.
> >>>
> >>> What often bothers me about Stackoverflow is that the signal to noise
> >>> ratio
> >>> can be very small.
> >>>
> >>> One often sees unchallenged responses in abandoned questions that are
> >>> hopelessly wrong, out of date or misleading. There's no curating
> >>> happening
> >>> but everything comes up in searches and so on with equal weight.
> >>>
> >>> Somehow, in a list (even a searchable, archived one) things get a
> >>> lifetime
> >>> and pass out of the window of current-ness (hope that makes sense).
> >>>
> >>> Plus, one often gets drive-by 'contributors' with axes to grind ("You
> >>> shouldn't be doing it in Grails! Use Super-Duper XYZ v3.7.9.4.1.alpha
> >>> Framework instead! It can do reverse Polish database access better than
> >>> anything else!" or "I tried Grails once. It didn't work efficiently on
> my
> >>> 8086 minix laptop, so it's clearly a P.O.S.. Bash scripting FTW! I
> mean,
> >>> I
> >>> handle _tens_ of requests per minute on my box <grin>").
> >>>
> >>> Again, this seems to happen less in a list.
> >>>
> >>> The cumulative effect has the potential to constitute bad PR for
> Grails,
> >>> IM(NS)HO.
> >>>
> >>> There's my AUD$0.02c.
> >>>
> >>> Whether this is a contribution to signal or noise is up in the air, I
> >>> guess...
> >>>
> >>> BOB
> >>> Should I don an asbestos suite?
> >>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: Robert Oschwald [mailto:***@googlemail.com]
> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, 14 May 2014 8:29 PM
> >>>> To: ***@grails.codehaus.org ***@grails.codehaus.org
> >>>> Subject: Re: [grails-user] Re: Deprecating The Grails Mailing Lists
> >>>>
> >>>> +1
> >>>>
> >>>> Am 14.05.2014 um 11:53 schrieb Rainer Frey <***@gmail.com>:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Hi,
> >>>> why not create a Grails Users google group? Stackoverflow is
> so
> >>>> limited by its strict format that requires questions that have "right"
> >>>
> >>> answers
> >>>>
> >>>> and don't allow for any debate. There are open questions/discussions
> on
> >>>> how to best achieve certain things with grails that are no suitable
> for
> >>>> Stackoverflow yet are not related to the development of the framework
> >>>> itself and would not have been appropriate for the dev mailing list.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 4:42 AM, Eric MacAdie
> >>>> <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> 'comp.lang.groovy' and
> >>>> 'comp.lang.grails' :)
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 10:47 AM, Owen Rubel
> >>>> <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> all in favor of a grails usenet group say
> >>>> 'comp.lang.groovy' and
> >>>> 'comp.lang.grails' :)
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> View this message in context:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> http://grails.1312388.n4.nabble.com/Deprecating-The-Grails-Mailing-Lists-
> >>>> tp4656735p4656850.html
> >>>> Sent from the Grails - user mailing list
> archive
> >>>> at
> >>>> Nabble.com.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>
> >>>> ----
> >>>> To unsubscribe from this list, please visit:
> >>>>
> >>>> http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> To unsubscribe from this list, please visit:
> >>>
> >>> http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> To unsubscribe from this list, please visit:
> >>>
> >>> http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> --
> >> {}S José Vilmar Estácio de Souza
> >>
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe from this list, please visit:
> >>
> >> http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Graeme Rocher
> Grails Project Lead
> SpringSource
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this list, please visit:
>
> http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
>
>
>

[Ivan Arrizabalaga Getino]

+1
There are certain open questions (design approaches, for instance) that
neither belong to stackoverflow nor the group.
What then?

Since stackoverflow is a 3rd party platform and their rules are set, I
guess the right approach is to move these type of discussions to the google
group.


*_____________________________________*

* http://about.me/ivan-arrizabalaga <http://about.me/ivan-arrizabalaga>*



On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 1:10 PM, Rainer Frey <***@gmail.com> wrote:

> So where should question like "I experience erroneous behavior xy, is this
> a bug in grails or am I doing s.th. wrong?" be asked. Per description
> these would not really fit into the google group, but would likely be
> closed as not constructive on stackoverflow.
>
> Rainer
>
>
> On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 10:01 AM, Graeme Rocher <***@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> And there is, it is at
>> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/grails-dev-discuss
>>
>> But it isn't for usage questions, only for discussion around the
>> framework. Folks can still catch up with the later discussion around
>> the development of the framework and its plugins in
>> 'grails-dev-discuss' (offline or online)
>>
>> Stack Overflow, however, is a better forum for usage questions and
>> makes answers easier to find on Google than a mailing list does.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 2:50 AM, Eric MacAdie <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > I agree that there should be a mailing list for Grails.
>> >
>> > = Eric MacAdie
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 9:18 AM, José Vilmar Estácio de Souza
>> > <***@informal.com.br> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> +1.
>> >> Another point in favor of the mailing list is accessibility.
>> >>
>> >> The forums do not always have a very good accessibility, which makes
>> it a
>> >> little more difficult to access by blind people like me
>> >> Thanks.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On 05/14/2014 10:26 AM, Harlan H. Bloom wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> I've seen recently that more and more technical groups are getting
>> away
>> >>> from mailing lists. I personally like the mailing lists because I can
>> >>> actually read them when I'm offline.
>> >>>
>> >>> I commute to work using public transportation. This is almost the
>> only
>> >>> time that I have available to try and keep up with current technology
>> or
>> >>> interests. While on the buses, I almost never have access to the
>> internet.
>> >>> Forums are not convenient at all. Plus all my interests are in one
>> place,
>> >>> instead of having to jump from one site to another all day long.
>> >>>
>> >>> I do have a smartphone and I do tether my computer to the phone.
>> >>> However, I also have a limited amount of usage for each month. If I
>> had to
>> >>> stay online to scan all the different forums, I wouldn't be able to
>> afford
>> >>> my phone bill.
>> >>>
>> >>> I realize I'm in the severe minority on this topic, especially since
>> I'm
>> >>> not a regular contributor.
>> >>>
>> >>> Please keep the email groups somehow.
>> >>>
>> >>> Thanks,
>> >>>
>> >>> Harlan...
>> >>>
>> >>> ----- Original Message -----
>> >>> From: "Bob Brown" <***@transentia.com.au>
>> >>> To: ***@grails.codehaus.org
>> >>> Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2014 5:44:40 AM
>> >>> Subject: RE: [grails-user] Re: Deprecating The Grails Mailing Lists
>> >>>
>> >>> I like this idea, so +1 from me.
>> >>>
>> >>> What often bothers me about Stackoverflow is that the signal to noise
>> >>> ratio
>> >>> can be very small.
>> >>>
>> >>> One often sees unchallenged responses in abandoned questions that are
>> >>> hopelessly wrong, out of date or misleading. There's no curating
>> >>> happening
>> >>> but everything comes up in searches and so on with equal weight.
>> >>>
>> >>> Somehow, in a list (even a searchable, archived one) things get a
>> >>> lifetime
>> >>> and pass out of the window of current-ness (hope that makes sense).
>> >>>
>> >>> Plus, one often gets drive-by 'contributors' with axes to grind ("You
>> >>> shouldn't be doing it in Grails! Use Super-Duper XYZ v3.7.9.4.1.alpha
>> >>> Framework instead! It can do reverse Polish database access better
>> than
>> >>> anything else!" or "I tried Grails once. It didn't work efficiently
>> on my
>> >>> 8086 minix laptop, so it's clearly a P.O.S.. Bash scripting FTW! I
>> mean,
>> >>> I
>> >>> handle _tens_ of requests per minute on my box <grin>").
>> >>>
>> >>> Again, this seems to happen less in a list.
>> >>>
>> >>> The cumulative effect has the potential to constitute bad PR for
>> Grails,
>> >>> IM(NS)HO.
>> >>>
>> >>> There's my AUD$0.02c.
>> >>>
>> >>> Whether this is a contribution to signal or noise is up in the air, I
>> >>> guess...
>> >>>
>> >>> BOB
>> >>> Should I don an asbestos suite?
>> >>>
>> >>>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>>> From: Robert Oschwald [mailto:***@googlemail.com]
>> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, 14 May 2014 8:29 PM
>> >>>> To: ***@grails.codehaus.org ***@grails.codehaus.org
>> >>>> Subject: Re: [grails-user] Re: Deprecating The Grails Mailing Lists
>> >>>>
>> >>>> +1
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Am 14.05.2014 um 11:53 schrieb Rainer Frey <***@gmail.com>:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Hi,
>> >>>> why not create a Grails Users google group? Stackoverflow is
>> so
>> >>>> limited by its strict format that requires questions that have
>> "right"
>> >>>
>> >>> answers
>> >>>>
>> >>>> and don't allow for any debate. There are open questions/discussions
>> on
>> >>>> how to best achieve certain things with grails that are no suitable
>> for
>> >>>> Stackoverflow yet are not related to the development of the framework
>> >>>> itself and would not have been appropriate for the dev mailing list.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 4:42 AM, Eric MacAdie
>> >>>> <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> 'comp.lang.groovy' and
>> >>>> 'comp.lang.grails' :)
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 10:47 AM, Owen Rubel
>> >>>> <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> all in favor of a grails usenet group say
>> >>>> 'comp.lang.groovy' and
>> >>>> 'comp.lang.grails' :)
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> --
>> >>>> View this message in context:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> http://grails.1312388.n4.nabble.com/Deprecating-The-Grails-Mailing-Lists-
>> >>>> tp4656735p4656850.html
>> >>>> Sent from the Grails - user mailing list
>> archive
>> >>>> at
>> >>>> Nabble.com.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>>>
>> >>>> ----
>> >>>> To unsubscribe from this list, please visit:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>> To unsubscribe from this list, please visit:
>> >>>
>> >>> http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>> To unsubscribe from this list, please visit:
>> >>>
>> >>> http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> {}S José Vilmar Estácio de Souza
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> To unsubscribe from this list, please visit:
>> >>
>> >> http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Graeme Rocher
>> Grails Project Lead
>> SpringSource
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe from this list, please visit:
>>
>> http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
>>
>>
>>
>

[Jeff Scott Brown]

On May 15, 2014 at 1:36:10 PM, Ivan Arrizabalaga Getino (***@gmail.com) wrote:
> +1
> There are certain open questions (design approaches, for instance) that
> neither belong to stackoverflow nor the group.
> What then?
> 

I submit that there are no instances of the things you are describing.  If there is a question or discussion to be had about the framework that as you say does not belong on StackOverflow, take it to the Google Group.  There shouldn’t be anything that isn’t suitable for either.  




JSB
—
Jeff Scott Brown
***@gopivotal.com

Find The Cause ~ Find The Cure
http://www.autismspeaks.org/



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[Sergio Michels]

I personally like the way that SO handles straight questions. The code is
always clear, and the community have the opportunity to correct or improve
an answer. For so many times I googled something that was answered in the
StackOverflow. Finding unanswered questions is easy too, what can maybe fix
the "my question was not answered" problem that I've seen here sometimes.

Another thing that I like about SO, is that it makes the user search about
the topic before posting a question, avoiding suff like "I don't know, so
give me the code".

I think that maybe we're focusing a lot in "limitations" of the new Google
group that don't exists. If I understood Graeme and Jeff correctly, we can
use the group for discussions, eliminating the StackOverflow limitation. I
don't see any response with restrictions about the Google Group.




--
Sérgio Michels


On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 8:47 AM, Jeff Scott Brown <***@gopivotal.com>wrote:

>
>
> On May 15, 2014 at 1:36:10 PM, Ivan Arrizabalaga Getino (
> ***@gmail.com) wrote:
> > +1
> > There are certain open questions (design approaches, for instance) that
> > neither belong to stackoverflow nor the group.
> > What then?
> >
>
> I submit that there are no instances of the things you are describing. If
> there is a question or discussion to be had about the framework that as you
> say does not belong on StackOverflow, take it to the Google Group. There
> shouldn’t be anything that isn’t suitable for either.
>
>
>
>
> JSB
> —
> Jeff Scott Brown
> ***@gopivotal.com
>
> Find The Cause ~ Find The Cure
> http://www.autismspeaks.org/
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this list, please visit:
>
> http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
>
>
>

[Aaron Long]

As the primary contributor (or troll depending on how you view it :) on the
Google group so far, I think it will be just fine for that type of
discussion. It seems that the group will be somewhat less framework/plugin
developer focused than the mailing list was and should harbor some of the
more conceptual discussions about Grails. I think everyone has been bitten
by the "Please ask usage questions on the user list" reply when sometimes
the question toes the edge of being a usage question and a developer
question.

I agree with Sergio, SO is so much better for questions and answers. Not
only does it provide a way to down vote terrible questions and promote more
well-formed and thought out questions, but it gives a repository for proper
answers that can evolve with the framework.

-Aaron


On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 9:40 AM, Sergio Michels <***@gmail.com>wrote:

> I personally like the way that SO handles straight questions. The code is
> always clear, and the community have the opportunity to correct or improve
> an answer. For so many times I googled something that was answered in the
> StackOverflow. Finding unanswered questions is easy too, what can maybe fix
> the "my question was not answered" problem that I've seen here sometimes.
>
> Another thing that I like about SO, is that it makes the user search about
> the topic before posting a question, avoiding suff like "I don't know, so
> give me the code".
>
> I think that maybe we're focusing a lot in "limitations" of the new Google
> group that don't exists. If I understood Graeme and Jeff correctly, we can
> use the group for discussions, eliminating the StackOverflow limitation. I
> don't see any response with restrictions about the Google Group.
>
>
>
>
> --
> Sérgio Michels
>
>
> On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 8:47 AM, Jeff Scott Brown <***@gopivotal.com>wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On May 15, 2014 at 1:36:10 PM, Ivan Arrizabalaga Getino (
>> ***@gmail.com) wrote:
>> > +1
>> > There are certain open questions (design approaches, for instance) that
>> > neither belong to stackoverflow nor the group.
>> > What then?
>> >
>>
>> I submit that there are no instances of the things you are describing.
>> If there is a question or discussion to be had about the framework that as
>> you say does not belong on StackOverflow, take it to the Google Group.
>> There shouldn’t be anything that isn’t suitable for either.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> JSB
>> —
>> Jeff Scott Brown
>> ***@gopivotal.com
>>
>> Find The Cause ~ Find The Cure
>> http://www.autismspeaks.org/
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe from this list, please visit:
>>
>> http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
>>
>>
>>
>

[Jeff Scott Brown]

On May 15, 2014 at 1:12:39 PM, Rainer Frey (***@gmail.com) wrote:
> So where should question like "I experience erroneous behavior xy, is this
> a bug in grails or am I doing s.th. wrong?" be asked. Per description these
> would not really fit into the google group, but would likely be closed as
> not constructive on stackoverflow.
>
> Rainer
>
> 

It would depend on what “xy” is but in general I would pose it as a question on SO.  

In your case you have already asserted that the behavior is erroneous.  If it is in fact erroneous behavior in the framework itself (as opposed to your code) then you shouldn’t be asking a question.  File a JIRA.  I expect that you aren’t sure if it is erroneous behavior in the framework in which case you can post to SO and describe what you want to accomplish, describe what you are doing and what it does that is inconsistent with your goal, and ask how to make it work.  If it is a bug, someone may say it is a bug and that may lead to a JIRA issue being created.  If it isn’t a bug and there is a way to do what you are seeking, someone will answer and you will have info to work with.  If you already know it is a bug in the framework then SO doesn’t need to be involved unless you want to ask a question about how to workaround the bug.  I don’t know why you think your question would likely be closed as non constructive unless you are intending to ask some bogus question.  Loads of other folks are able to successfully construct questions that lead to answers.




JSB

—
Jeff Scott Brown
***@gopivotal.com

Find The Cause ~ Find The Cure
http://www.autismspeaks.org/



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[Erik Pragt]

On 15 May 2014, at 10:01, Graeme Rocher <***@gmail.com> wrote:

> And there is, it is at
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/grails-dev-discuss
>
> But it isn't for usage questions, only for discussion around the
> framework.

If the Google groups is used for discussions around the framework (fine!), and SO is used for strict questions, which place would you recommend for questions like: what is the best place to put your business logic? What is the based way to avoid duplicate validation rules? These questions are closed within minutes on SO since they represent opinions, and are not a place on Google, according to your statement, if I’m reading this correct.

> I submit that there are no instances of the things you are describing. If there is a question or discussion to be had about the framework that as you say does not belong on StackOverflow, take it to the Google Group. There shouldn’t be anything that isn’t suitable for either.

According to Jeff, however, the question should be on the Google group. I’m sorry, but I find this a bit confusing. Would it be an idea to just have two groups on Google, one for dev and one for users? Questions about errors and the like will probably still be posted on SO, just because the feedback is so fast, but there seems to be no place to ask questions about opinions, which is IMO a huge loss.

Any ideas on this?

Erik Pragt


> Folks can still catch up with the later discussion around
> the development of the framework and its plugins in
> 'grails-dev-discuss' (offline or online)
>
> Stack Overflow, however, is a better forum for usage questions and
> makes answers easier to find on Google than a mailing list does.
>
> Cheers
>
> On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 2:50 AM, Eric MacAdie <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I agree that there should be a mailing list for Grails.
>>
>> = Eric MacAdie
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 9:18 AM, José Vilmar Estácio de Souza
>> <***@informal.com.br> wrote:
>>>
>>> +1.
>>> Another point in favor of the mailing list is accessibility.
>>>
>>> The forums do not always have a very good accessibility, which makes it a
>>> little more difficult to access by blind people like me
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 05/14/2014 10:26 AM, Harlan H. Bloom wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I've seen recently that more and more technical groups are getting away
>>>> from mailing lists. I personally like the mailing lists because I can
>>>> actually read them when I'm offline.
>>>>
>>>> I commute to work using public transportation. This is almost the only
>>>> time that I have available to try and keep up with current technology or
>>>> interests. While on the buses, I almost never have access to the internet.
>>>> Forums are not convenient at all. Plus all my interests are in one place,
>>>> instead of having to jump from one site to another all day long.
>>>>
>>>> I do have a smartphone and I do tether my computer to the phone.
>>>> However, I also have a limited amount of usage for each month. If I had to
>>>> stay online to scan all the different forums, I wouldn't be able to afford
>>>> my phone bill.
>>>>
>>>> I realize I'm in the severe minority on this topic, especially since I'm
>>>> not a regular contributor.
>>>>
>>>> Please keep the email groups somehow.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Harlan...
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Bob Brown" <***@transentia.com.au>
>>>> To: ***@grails.codehaus.org
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2014 5:44:40 AM
>>>> Subject: RE: [grails-user] Re: Deprecating The Grails Mailing Lists
>>>>
>>>> I like this idea, so +1 from me.
>>>>
>>>> What often bothers me about Stackoverflow is that the signal to noise
>>>> ratio
>>>> can be very small.
>>>>
>>>> One often sees unchallenged responses in abandoned questions that are
>>>> hopelessly wrong, out of date or misleading. There's no curating
>>>> happening
>>>> but everything comes up in searches and so on with equal weight.
>>>>
>>>> Somehow, in a list (even a searchable, archived one) things get a
>>>> lifetime
>>>> and pass out of the window of current-ness (hope that makes sense).
>>>>
>>>> Plus, one often gets drive-by 'contributors' with axes to grind ("You
>>>> shouldn't be doing it in Grails! Use Super-Duper XYZ v3.7.9.4.1.alpha
>>>> Framework instead! It can do reverse Polish database access better than
>>>> anything else!" or "I tried Grails once. It didn't work efficiently on my
>>>> 8086 minix laptop, so it's clearly a P.O.S.. Bash scripting FTW! I mean,
>>>> I
>>>> handle _tens_ of requests per minute on my box <grin>").
>>>>
>>>> Again, this seems to happen less in a list.
>>>>
>>>> The cumulative effect has the potential to constitute bad PR for Grails,
>>>> IM(NS)HO.
>>>>
>>>> There's my AUD$0.02c.
>>>>
>>>> Whether this is a contribution to signal or noise is up in the air, I
>>>> guess...
>>>>
>>>> BOB
>>>> Should I don an asbestos suite?
>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Robert Oschwald [mailto:***@googlemail.com]
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, 14 May 2014 8:29 PM
>>>>> To: ***@grails.codehaus.org ***@grails.codehaus.org
>>>>> Subject: Re: [grails-user] Re: Deprecating The Grails Mailing Lists
>>>>>
>>>>> +1
>>>>>
>>>>> Am 14.05.2014 um 11:53 schrieb Rainer Frey <***@gmail.com>:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> why not create a Grails Users google group? Stackoverflow is so
>>>>> limited by its strict format that requires questions that have "right"
>>>>
>>>> answers
>>>>>
>>>>> and don't allow for any debate. There are open questions/discussions on
>>>>> how to best achieve certain things with grails that are no suitable for
>>>>> Stackoverflow yet are not related to the development of the framework
>>>>> itself and would not have been appropriate for the dev mailing list.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 4:42 AM, Eric MacAdie
>>>>> <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 'comp.lang.groovy' and
>>>>> 'comp.lang.grails' :)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 10:47 AM, Owen Rubel
>>>>> <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> all in favor of a grails usenet group say
>>>>> 'comp.lang.groovy' and
>>>>> 'comp.lang.grails' :)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> View this message in context:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://grails.1312388.n4.nabble.com/Deprecating-The-Grails-Mailing-Lists-
>>>>> tp4656735p4656850.html
>>>>> Sent from the Grails - user mailing list archive
>>>>> at
>>>>> Nabble.com.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> ----
>>>>> To unsubscribe from this list, please visit:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe from this list, please visit:
>>>>
>>>> http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe from this list, please visit:
>>>>
>>>> http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> {}S José Vilmar Estácio de Souza
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe from this list, please visit:
>>>
>>> http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Graeme Rocher
> Grails Project Lead
> SpringSource
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this list, please visit:
>
> http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
>
>


---------------------------------------------------------------------
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http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email

[Eric MacAdie]

The idea of not having a mailing list and telling people to post on SO just
seems weird to me. Is there any other open source project with traction
that does not have its own dedicated mailing list?

= Eric MacAdie



On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 12:50 AM, Erik Pragt <***@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> On 15 May 2014, at 10:01, Graeme Rocher <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > And there is, it is at
> > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/grails-dev-discuss
> >
> > But it isn't for usage questions, only for discussion around the
> > framework.
>
> If the Google groups is used for discussions around the framework (fine!),
> and SO is used for strict questions, which place would you recommend for
> questions like: what is the best place to put your business logic? What is
> the based way to avoid duplicate validation rules? These questions are
> closed within minutes on SO since they represent opinions, and are not a
> place on Google, according to your statement, if I’m reading this correct.
>
> > I submit that there are no instances of the things you are describing.
> If there is a question or discussion to be had about the framework that as
> you say does not belong on StackOverflow, take it to the Google Group.
> There shouldn’t be anything that isn’t suitable for either.
>
> According to Jeff, however, the question should be on the Google group.
> I’m sorry, but I find this a bit confusing. Would it be an idea to just
> have two groups on Google, one for dev and one for users? Questions about
> errors and the like will probably still be posted on SO, just because the
> feedback is so fast, but there seems to be no place to ask questions about
> opinions, which is IMO a huge loss.
>
> Any ideas on this?
>
> Erik Pragt
>
>
> > Folks can still catch up with the later discussion around
> > the development of the framework and its plugins in
> > 'grails-dev-discuss' (offline or online)
> >
> > Stack Overflow, however, is a better forum for usage questions and
> > makes answers easier to find on Google than a mailing list does.
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 2:50 AM, Eric MacAdie <***@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >> I agree that there should be a mailing list for Grails.
> >>
> >> = Eric MacAdie
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 9:18 AM, José Vilmar Estácio de Souza
> >> <***@informal.com.br> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> +1.
> >>> Another point in favor of the mailing list is accessibility.
> >>>
> >>> The forums do not always have a very good accessibility, which makes
> it a
> >>> little more difficult to access by blind people like me
> >>> Thanks.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 05/14/2014 10:26 AM, Harlan H. Bloom wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> I've seen recently that more and more technical groups are getting
> away
> >>>> from mailing lists. I personally like the mailing lists because I can
> >>>> actually read them when I'm offline.
> >>>>
> >>>> I commute to work using public transportation. This is almost the
> only
> >>>> time that I have available to try and keep up with current technology
> or
> >>>> interests. While on the buses, I almost never have access to the
> internet.
> >>>> Forums are not convenient at all. Plus all my interests are in one
> place,
> >>>> instead of having to jump from one site to another all day long.
> >>>>
> >>>> I do have a smartphone and I do tether my computer to the phone.
> >>>> However, I also have a limited amount of usage for each month. If I
> had to
> >>>> stay online to scan all the different forums, I wouldn't be able to
> afford
> >>>> my phone bill.
> >>>>
> >>>> I realize I'm in the severe minority on this topic, especially since
> I'm
> >>>> not a regular contributor.
> >>>>
> >>>> Please keep the email groups somehow.
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks,
> >>>>
> >>>> Harlan...
> >>>>
> >>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>> From: "Bob Brown" <***@transentia.com.au>
> >>>> To: ***@grails.codehaus.org
> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2014 5:44:40 AM
> >>>> Subject: RE: [grails-user] Re: Deprecating The Grails Mailing Lists
> >>>>
> >>>> I like this idea, so +1 from me.
> >>>>
> >>>> What often bothers me about Stackoverflow is that the signal to noise
> >>>> ratio
> >>>> can be very small.
> >>>>
> >>>> One often sees unchallenged responses in abandoned questions that are
> >>>> hopelessly wrong, out of date or misleading. There's no curating
> >>>> happening
> >>>> but everything comes up in searches and so on with equal weight.
> >>>>
> >>>> Somehow, in a list (even a searchable, archived one) things get a
> >>>> lifetime
> >>>> and pass out of the window of current-ness (hope that makes sense).
> >>>>
> >>>> Plus, one often gets drive-by 'contributors' with axes to grind ("You
> >>>> shouldn't be doing it in Grails! Use Super-Duper XYZ v3.7.9.4.1.alpha
> >>>> Framework instead! It can do reverse Polish database access better
> than
> >>>> anything else!" or "I tried Grails once. It didn't work efficiently
> on my
> >>>> 8086 minix laptop, so it's clearly a P.O.S.. Bash scripting FTW! I
> mean,
> >>>> I
> >>>> handle _tens_ of requests per minute on my box <grin>").
> >>>>
> >>>> Again, this seems to happen less in a list.
> >>>>
> >>>> The cumulative effect has the potential to constitute bad PR for
> Grails,
> >>>> IM(NS)HO.
> >>>>
> >>>> There's my AUD$0.02c.
> >>>>
> >>>> Whether this is a contribution to signal or noise is up in the air, I
> >>>> guess...
> >>>>
> >>>> BOB
> >>>> Should I don an asbestos suite?
> >>>>
> >>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>> From: Robert Oschwald [mailto:***@googlemail.com]
> >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, 14 May 2014 8:29 PM
> >>>>> To: ***@grails.codehaus.org ***@grails.codehaus.org
> >>>>> Subject: Re: [grails-user] Re: Deprecating The Grails Mailing Lists
> >>>>>
> >>>>> +1
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Am 14.05.2014 um 11:53 schrieb Rainer Frey <***@gmail.com>:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Hi,
> >>>>> why not create a Grails Users google group? Stackoverflow is
> so
> >>>>> limited by its strict format that requires questions that have
> "right"
> >>>>
> >>>> answers
> >>>>>
> >>>>> and don't allow for any debate. There are open questions/discussions
> on
> >>>>> how to best achieve certain things with grails that are no suitable
> for
> >>>>> Stackoverflow yet are not related to the development of the framework
> >>>>> itself and would not have been appropriate for the dev mailing list.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 4:42 AM, Eric MacAdie
> >>>>> <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 'comp.lang.groovy' and
> >>>>> 'comp.lang.grails' :)
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 10:47 AM, Owen Rubel
> >>>>> <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> all in favor of a grails usenet group say
> >>>>> 'comp.lang.groovy' and
> >>>>> 'comp.lang.grails' :)
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> View this message in context:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> http://grails.1312388.n4.nabble.com/Deprecating-The-Grails-Mailing-Lists-
> >>>>> tp4656735p4656850.html
> >>>>> Sent from the Grails - user mailing list
> archive
> >>>>> at
> >>>>> Nabble.com.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ----
> >>>>> To unsubscribe from this list, please visit:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>> To unsubscribe from this list, please visit:
> >>>>
> >>>> http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>> To unsubscribe from this list, please visit:
> >>>>
> >>>> http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> {}S José Vilmar Estácio de Souza
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> To unsubscribe from this list, please visit:
> >>>
> >>> http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Graeme Rocher
> > Grails Project Lead
> > SpringSource
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe from this list, please visit:
> >
> > http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
> >
> >
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this list, please visit:
>
> http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
>
>
>

[Graeme Rocher]

Spring Framework, Hibernate, Gradle, many others

Cheers

On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 3:22 AM, Eric MacAdie <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> The idea of not having a mailing list and telling people to post on SO just
> seems weird to me. Is there any other open source project with traction that
> does not have its own dedicated mailing list?
>
> = Eric MacAdie
>
>
>
> On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 12:50 AM, Erik Pragt <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 15 May 2014, at 10:01, Graeme Rocher <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > And there is, it is at
>> > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/grails-dev-discuss
>> >
>> > But it isn't for usage questions, only for discussion around the
>> > framework.
>>
>> If the Google groups is used for discussions around the framework (fine!),
>> and SO is used for strict questions, which place would you recommend for
>> questions like: what is the best place to put your business logic? What is
>> the based way to avoid duplicate validation rules? These questions are
>> closed within minutes on SO since they represent opinions, and are not a
>> place on Google, according to your statement, if I’m reading this correct.
>>
>> > I submit that there are no instances of the things you are describing.
>> > If there is a question or discussion to be had about the framework that as
>> > you say does not belong on StackOverflow, take it to the Google Group.
>> > There shouldn’t be anything that isn’t suitable for either.
>>
>> According to Jeff, however, the question should be on the Google group.
>> I’m sorry, but I find this a bit confusing. Would it be an idea to just have
>> two groups on Google, one for dev and one for users? Questions about errors
>> and the like will probably still be posted on SO, just because the feedback
>> is so fast, but there seems to be no place to ask questions about opinions,
>> which is IMO a huge loss.
>>
>> Any ideas on this?
>>
>> Erik Pragt
>>
>>
>> > Folks can still catch up with the later discussion around
>> > the development of the framework and its plugins in
>> > 'grails-dev-discuss' (offline or online)
>> >
>> > Stack Overflow, however, is a better forum for usage questions and
>> > makes answers easier to find on Google than a mailing list does.
>> >
>> > Cheers
>> >
>> > On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 2:50 AM, Eric MacAdie <***@gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >> I agree that there should be a mailing list for Grails.
>> >>
>> >> = Eric MacAdie
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 9:18 AM, José Vilmar Estácio de Souza
>> >> <***@informal.com.br> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> +1.
>> >>> Another point in favor of the mailing list is accessibility.
>> >>>
>> >>> The forums do not always have a very good accessibility, which makes
>> >>> it a
>> >>> little more difficult to access by blind people like me
>> >>> Thanks.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On 05/14/2014 10:26 AM, Harlan H. Bloom wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I've seen recently that more and more technical groups are getting
>> >>>> away
>> >>>> from mailing lists. I personally like the mailing lists because I
>> >>>> can
>> >>>> actually read them when I'm offline.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I commute to work using public transportation. This is almost the
>> >>>> only
>> >>>> time that I have available to try and keep up with current technology
>> >>>> or
>> >>>> interests. While on the buses, I almost never have access to the
>> >>>> internet.
>> >>>> Forums are not convenient at all. Plus all my interests are in one
>> >>>> place,
>> >>>> instead of having to jump from one site to another all day long.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I do have a smartphone and I do tether my computer to the phone.
>> >>>> However, I also have a limited amount of usage for each month. If I
>> >>>> had to
>> >>>> stay online to scan all the different forums, I wouldn't be able to
>> >>>> afford
>> >>>> my phone bill.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I realize I'm in the severe minority on this topic, especially since
>> >>>> I'm
>> >>>> not a regular contributor.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Please keep the email groups somehow.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Thanks,
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Harlan...
>> >>>>
>> >>>> ----- Original Message -----
>> >>>> From: "Bob Brown" <***@transentia.com.au>
>> >>>> To: ***@grails.codehaus.org
>> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2014 5:44:40 AM
>> >>>> Subject: RE: [grails-user] Re: Deprecating The Grails Mailing Lists
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I like this idea, so +1 from me.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> What often bothers me about Stackoverflow is that the signal to noise
>> >>>> ratio
>> >>>> can be very small.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> One often sees unchallenged responses in abandoned questions that are
>> >>>> hopelessly wrong, out of date or misleading. There's no curating
>> >>>> happening
>> >>>> but everything comes up in searches and so on with equal weight.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Somehow, in a list (even a searchable, archived one) things get a
>> >>>> lifetime
>> >>>> and pass out of the window of current-ness (hope that makes sense).
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Plus, one often gets drive-by 'contributors' with axes to grind ("You
>> >>>> shouldn't be doing it in Grails! Use Super-Duper XYZ v3.7.9.4.1.alpha
>> >>>> Framework instead! It can do reverse Polish database access better
>> >>>> than
>> >>>> anything else!" or "I tried Grails once. It didn't work efficiently
>> >>>> on my
>> >>>> 8086 minix laptop, so it's clearly a P.O.S.. Bash scripting FTW! I
>> >>>> mean,
>> >>>> I
>> >>>> handle _tens_ of requests per minute on my box <grin>").
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Again, this seems to happen less in a list.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> The cumulative effect has the potential to constitute bad PR for
>> >>>> Grails,
>> >>>> IM(NS)HO.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> There's my AUD$0.02c.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Whether this is a contribution to signal or noise is up in the air, I
>> >>>> guess...
>> >>>>
>> >>>> BOB
>> >>>> Should I don an asbestos suite?
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>>>> From: Robert Oschwald [mailto:***@googlemail.com]
>> >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, 14 May 2014 8:29 PM
>> >>>>> To: ***@grails.codehaus.org ***@grails.codehaus.org
>> >>>>> Subject: Re: [grails-user] Re: Deprecating The Grails Mailing Lists
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> +1
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Am 14.05.2014 um 11:53 schrieb Rainer Frey <***@gmail.com>:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Hi,
>> >>>>> why not create a Grails Users google group? Stackoverflow is
>> >>>>> so
>> >>>>> limited by its strict format that requires questions that have
>> >>>>> "right"
>> >>>>
>> >>>> answers
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> and don't allow for any debate. There are open questions/discussions
>> >>>>> on
>> >>>>> how to best achieve certain things with grails that are no suitable
>> >>>>> for
>> >>>>> Stackoverflow yet are not related to the development of the
>> >>>>> framework
>> >>>>> itself and would not have been appropriate for the dev mailing list.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 4:42 AM, Eric MacAdie
>> >>>>> <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> 'comp.lang.groovy' and
>> >>>>> 'comp.lang.grails' :)
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 10:47 AM, Owen Rubel
>> >>>>> <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> all in favor of a grails usenet group say
>> >>>>> 'comp.lang.groovy' and
>> >>>>> 'comp.lang.grails' :)
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> --
>> >>>>> View this message in context:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> http://grails.1312388.n4.nabble.com/Deprecating-The-Grails-Mailing-Lists-
>> >>>>> tp4656735p4656850.html
>> >>>>> Sent from the Grails - user mailing list
>> >>>>> archive
>> >>>>> at
>> >>>>> Nabble.com.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> ----
>> >>>>> To unsubscribe from this list, please visit:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>>> To unsubscribe from this list, please visit:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>>> To unsubscribe from this list, please visit:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>> --
>> >>> {}S José Vilmar Estácio de Souza
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>> To unsubscribe from this list, please visit:
>> >>>
>> >>> http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Graeme Rocher
>> > Grails Project Lead
>> > SpringSource
>> >
>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > To unsubscribe from this list, please visit:
>> >
>> > http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe from this list, please visit:
>>
>> http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
>>
>>
>



--
Graeme Rocher
Grails Project Lead
SpringSource

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[Rainer Frey]

But Spring Framework and Gradle do have their own, dedicated forums where
the projects execute the control on what is acceptable to post.

Rainer


On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 8:40 AM, Graeme Rocher <***@gmail.com>wrote:

> Spring Framework, Hibernate, Gradle, many others
>
> Cheers
>
> On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 3:22 AM, Eric MacAdie <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> > The idea of not having a mailing list and telling people to post on SO
> just
> > seems weird to me. Is there any other open source project with traction
> that
> > does not have its own dedicated mailing list?
> >
> > = Eric MacAdie
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 12:50 AM, Erik Pragt <***@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> On 15 May 2014, at 10:01, Graeme Rocher <***@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> > And there is, it is at
> >> > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/grails-dev-discuss
> >> >
> >> > But it isn't for usage questions, only for discussion around the
> >> > framework.
> >>
> >> If the Google groups is used for discussions around the framework
> (fine!),
> >> and SO is used for strict questions, which place would you recommend for
> >> questions like: what is the best place to put your business logic? What
> is
> >> the based way to avoid duplicate validation rules? These questions are
> >> closed within minutes on SO since they represent opinions, and are not a
> >> place on Google, according to your statement, if I’m reading this
> correct.
> >>
> >> > I submit that there are no instances of the things you are describing.
> >> > If there is a question or discussion to be had about the framework
> that as
> >> > you say does not belong on StackOverflow, take it to the Google Group.
> >> > There shouldn’t be anything that isn’t suitable for either.
> >>
> >> According to Jeff, however, the question should be on the Google group.
> >> I’m sorry, but I find this a bit confusing. Would it be an idea to just
> have
> >> two groups on Google, one for dev and one for users? Questions about
> errors
> >> and the like will probably still be posted on SO, just because the
> feedback
> >> is so fast, but there seems to be no place to ask questions about
> opinions,
> >> which is IMO a huge loss.
> >>
> >> Any ideas on this?
> >>
> >> Erik Pragt
> >>
> >>
> >> > Folks can still catch up with the later discussion around
> >> > the development of the framework and its plugins in
> >> > 'grails-dev-discuss' (offline or online)
> >> >
> >> > Stack Overflow, however, is a better forum for usage questions and
> >> > makes answers easier to find on Google than a mailing list does.
> >> >
> >> > Cheers
> >> >
> >> > On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 2:50 AM, Eric MacAdie <***@gmail.com>
> >> > wrote:
> >> >> I agree that there should be a mailing list for Grails.
> >> >>
> >> >> = Eric MacAdie
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 9:18 AM, José Vilmar Estácio de Souza
> >> >> <***@informal.com.br> wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> +1.
> >> >>> Another point in favor of the mailing list is accessibility.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> The forums do not always have a very good accessibility, which makes
> >> >>> it a
> >> >>> little more difficult to access by blind people like me
> >> >>> Thanks.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> On 05/14/2014 10:26 AM, Harlan H. Bloom wrote:
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> I've seen recently that more and more technical groups are getting
> >> >>>> away
> >> >>>> from mailing lists. I personally like the mailing lists because I
> >> >>>> can
> >> >>>> actually read them when I'm offline.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> I commute to work using public transportation. This is almost the
> >> >>>> only
> >> >>>> time that I have available to try and keep up with current
> technology
> >> >>>> or
> >> >>>> interests. While on the buses, I almost never have access to the
> >> >>>> internet.
> >> >>>> Forums are not convenient at all. Plus all my interests are in one
> >> >>>> place,
> >> >>>> instead of having to jump from one site to another all day long.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> I do have a smartphone and I do tether my computer to the phone.
> >> >>>> However, I also have a limited amount of usage for each month. If
> I
> >> >>>> had to
> >> >>>> stay online to scan all the different forums, I wouldn't be able to
> >> >>>> afford
> >> >>>> my phone bill.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> I realize I'm in the severe minority on this topic, especially
> since
> >> >>>> I'm
> >> >>>> not a regular contributor.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Please keep the email groups somehow.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Thanks,
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Harlan...
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >> >>>> From: "Bob Brown" <***@transentia.com.au>
> >> >>>> To: ***@grails.codehaus.org
> >> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2014 5:44:40 AM
> >> >>>> Subject: RE: [grails-user] Re: Deprecating The Grails Mailing Lists
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> I like this idea, so +1 from me.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> What often bothers me about Stackoverflow is that the signal to
> noise
> >> >>>> ratio
> >> >>>> can be very small.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> One often sees unchallenged responses in abandoned questions that
> are
> >> >>>> hopelessly wrong, out of date or misleading. There's no curating
> >> >>>> happening
> >> >>>> but everything comes up in searches and so on with equal weight.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Somehow, in a list (even a searchable, archived one) things get a
> >> >>>> lifetime
> >> >>>> and pass out of the window of current-ness (hope that makes sense).
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Plus, one often gets drive-by 'contributors' with axes to grind
> ("You
> >> >>>> shouldn't be doing it in Grails! Use Super-Duper XYZ
> v3.7.9.4.1.alpha
> >> >>>> Framework instead! It can do reverse Polish database access better
> >> >>>> than
> >> >>>> anything else!" or "I tried Grails once. It didn't work efficiently
> >> >>>> on my
> >> >>>> 8086 minix laptop, so it's clearly a P.O.S.. Bash scripting FTW! I
> >> >>>> mean,
> >> >>>> I
> >> >>>> handle _tens_ of requests per minute on my box <grin>").
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Again, this seems to happen less in a list.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> The cumulative effect has the potential to constitute bad PR for
> >> >>>> Grails,
> >> >>>> IM(NS)HO.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> There's my AUD$0.02c.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Whether this is a contribution to signal or noise is up in the
> air, I
> >> >>>> guess...
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> BOB
> >> >>>> Should I don an asbestos suite?
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >> >>>>> From: Robert Oschwald [mailto:***@googlemail.com]
> >> >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, 14 May 2014 8:29 PM
> >> >>>>> To: ***@grails.codehaus.org ***@grails.codehaus.org
> >> >>>>> Subject: Re: [grails-user] Re: Deprecating The Grails Mailing
> Lists
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> +1
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> Am 14.05.2014 um 11:53 schrieb Rainer Frey <***@gmail.com
> >:
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> Hi,
> >> >>>>> why not create a Grails Users google group? Stackoverflow
> is
> >> >>>>> so
> >> >>>>> limited by its strict format that requires questions that have
> >> >>>>> "right"
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> answers
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> and don't allow for any debate. There are open
> questions/discussions
> >> >>>>> on
> >> >>>>> how to best achieve certain things with grails that are no
> suitable
> >> >>>>> for
> >> >>>>> Stackoverflow yet are not related to the development of the
> >> >>>>> framework
> >> >>>>> itself and would not have been appropriate for the dev mailing
> list.
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 4:42 AM, Eric MacAdie
> >> >>>>> <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> 'comp.lang.groovy' and
> >> >>>>> 'comp.lang.grails' :)
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 10:47 AM, Owen Rubel
> >> >>>>> <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> all in favor of a grails usenet group say
> >> >>>>> 'comp.lang.groovy' and
> >> >>>>> 'comp.lang.grails' :)
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> --
> >> >>>>> View this message in context:
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>
> http://grails.1312388.n4.nabble.com/Deprecating-The-Grails-Mailing-Lists-
> >> >>>>> tp4656735p4656850.html
> >> >>>>> Sent from the Grails - user mailing list
> >> >>>>> archive
> >> >>>>> at
> >> >>>>> Nabble.com.
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> ----
> >> >>>>> To unsubscribe from this list, please
> visit:
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>
> http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >>>> To unsubscribe from this list, please visit:
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >>>> To unsubscribe from this list, please visit:
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> --
> >> >>> {}S José Vilmar Estácio de Souza
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >>> To unsubscribe from this list, please visit:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > Graeme Rocher
> >> > Grails Project Lead
> >> > SpringSource
> >> >
> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> > To unsubscribe from this list, please visit:
> >> >
> >> > http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe from this list, please visit:
> >>
> >> http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Graeme Rocher
> Grails Project Lead
> SpringSource
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this list, please visit:
>
> http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
>
>
>

[Jeff Scott Brown]

On May 19, 2014 at 9:24:11 PM, Eric MacAdie (***@gmail.com) wrote:
> The idea of not having a mailing list and telling people to post on SO just
> seems weird to me. Is there any other open source project with traction
> that does not have its own dedicated mailing list?
>
> = Eric MacAdie
>
> 

As Graeme pointed out there are plenty of open source projects with traction that do not have their own dedicated mailing list.  You said…

"The idea of not having a mailing list and telling people to post on SO just seems weird to me.”

We _do_ have a mailing list.  In addition to that, we have a valuable channel for certain kinds of questions and that channel is StackOverflow.





JSB

—
Jeff Scott Brown
***@gopivotal.com

Find The Cause ~ Find The Cure
http://www.autismspeaks.org/



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[graham]

But I don't really think that the conversation here is necessarily about
what, how and where Grails support and comments are raised and, hopefully,
answered, I wonder whether it is more that the changes seem to contravene
the "If it's not broke, don't fix it" maxim.
As far as I can see the current situation works fairly well. If those in
charge of Grails wanted to concentrate their efforts onto StackOverflow then
why didn't they just do that and say the the grails-user and grails-dev
mailing lists would not be read by 'official' Grails support regularly,
rather than create yet another mailing list/forum. Or is it some desire to
disassociate from Codehaus ?
And I take it that the grails-plugin mailing list has already gone, it seems
moribund now ?
As for 'mailing list', I've always read these things via nabble so they're
effectively just a forum to me.

graham




--
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Sent from the Grails - user mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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[Graeme Rocher]

We needed to move away from Codehaus anyway that is true, and the
mailing lists were the last thing on Codehaus. However, we also had to
deal with the constant confusion users had between posting on user@ or
dev@

Now there is only dev@ which is a Google group. We are more than happy
to have constructive community discussion happening on the new
'grails-dev-discuss' channel, so it is completely not the case that
Grails "has no mailing list"

What we are simply asking is that usage questions be directed to Stack
Overflow. I don't know, but I don't think it is rocket science.

Cheers

On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 2:09 PM, graham <***@operamail.com> wrote:
> But I don't really think that the conversation here is necessarily about
> what, how and where Grails support and comments are raised and, hopefully,
> answered, I wonder whether it is more that the changes seem to contravene
> the "If it's not broke, don't fix it" maxim.
> As far as I can see the current situation works fairly well. If those in
> charge of Grails wanted to concentrate their efforts onto StackOverflow then
> why didn't they just do that and say the the grails-user and grails-dev
> mailing lists would not be read by 'official' Grails support regularly,
> rather than create yet another mailing list/forum. Or is it some desire to
> disassociate from Codehaus ?
> And I take it that the grails-plugin mailing list has already gone, it seems
> moribund now ?
> As for 'mailing list', I've always read these things via nabble so they're
> effectively just a forum to me.
>
> graham
>
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://grails.1312388.n4.nabble.com/Deprecating-The-Grails-Mailing-Lists-tp4656735p4656946.html
> Sent from the Grails - user mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this list, please visit:
>
> http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
>
>



--
Graeme Rocher
Grails Project Lead
SpringSource

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[Jeff Scott Brown]

On May 20, 2014 at 7:11:40 AM, graham (***@operamail.com) wrote:
> I wonder whether it is more that the changes seem to contravene
> the "If it's not broke, don't fix it" maxim.

One could argue that it was broke.  For one, we often had the same questions being posted in 2 places (StackOverflow and grails-user) and the corresponding discussions would evolve separate from each other.  There are others.  Even if it weren’t broke, that doesn’t justify avoiding change.  Moving some of our questions to StackOverflow is going to offer a number of benefits and we haven’t given up the mailing list so things that don’t make sense on StackOverflow still have a place to exist.


> If those in
> charge of Grails wanted to concentrate their efforts onto StackOverflow then
> why didn't they just do that and say the the grails-user and grails-dev
> mailing lists would not be read by 'official' Grails support regularly,
> rather than create yet another mailing list/forum. Or is it some desire to
> disassociate from Codehaus ?

This change wasn’t about fleeing from Codehaus but it did turn out that the mailing lists were the last connection that Grails had to Codehaus so since we made the decision to embrace StackOverflow it was a good time to severe the last dependency on Codehaus.

Of course community members are free to communicate on StackOverflow, the new Google Group, IRC, usenet groups, smoke signals and your local post office bulletin board.  This change doesn’t impose any restrictions on that.  Do whatever makes the most sense for you.  This change speaks to where the core team will focus more of their support focus and gives the community a set of very simple guidelines for effective ways to engage the core team as well as the community for support.  No one has to follow it but there are good reasons to follow it.

This really is a good change and will 



JSB
—
Jeff Scott Brown
***@gopivotal.com

Find The Cause ~ Find The Cure
http://www.autismspeaks.org/



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[Ronny Løvtangen]

Moving user questions to StackOverflow will probably be a good move for
- branding/visibility (sometimes evaluations of framework x compared to framework y will use metrics such as number of posts on StackOverflow)
- the likelihood of questions not going unanswered
- users that occasionally have some questions but are not willing to get all user-list traffic in their inbox each day

The dev-list has up to now been more or less disaster, at least it hasn't been used much for discussions around the development of Grails. I don't think it's bad if this list (now at Google groups) will get revitalised with some of the traffic (discussions on best practice etc) from the old user list.

Ronny


On 20 May 2014, at 14:24, Jeff Scott Brown <***@gopivotal.com> wrote:

>
>
> On May 20, 2014 at 7:11:40 AM, graham (***@operamail.com) wrote:
>> I wonder whether it is more that the changes seem to contravene
>> the "If it's not broke, don't fix it" maxim.
>
> One could argue that it was broke. For one, we often had the same questions being posted in 2 places (StackOverflow and grails-user) and the corresponding discussions would evolve separate from each other. There are others. Even if it weren’t broke, that doesn’t justify avoiding change. Moving some of our questions to StackOverflow is going to offer a number of benefits and we haven’t given up the mailing list so things that don’t make sense on StackOverflow still have a place to exist.
>
>
>> If those in
>> charge of Grails wanted to concentrate their efforts onto StackOverflow then
>> why didn't they just do that and say the the grails-user and grails-dev
>> mailing lists would not be read by 'official' Grails support regularly,
>> rather than create yet another mailing list/forum. Or is it some desire to
>> disassociate from Codehaus ?
>
> This change wasn’t about fleeing from Codehaus but it did turn out that the mailing lists were the last connection that Grails had to Codehaus so since we made the decision to embrace StackOverflow it was a good time to severe the last dependency on Codehaus.
>
> Of course community members are free to communicate on StackOverflow, the new Google Group, IRC, usenet groups, smoke signals and your local post office bulletin board. This change doesn’t impose any restrictions on that. Do whatever makes the most sense for you. This change speaks to where the core team will focus more of their support focus and gives the community a set of very simple guidelines for effective ways to engage the core team as well as the community for support. No one has to follow it but there are good reasons to follow it.
>
> This really is a good change and will
>
>
>
> JSB
> —
> Jeff Scott Brown
> ***@gopivotal.com
>
> Find The Cause ~ Find The Cure
> http://www.autismspeaks.org/
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this list, please visit:
>
> http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
>
>
>


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[Andréas Kühne]

The main issue I have with this is that I usually scan the lists every day
and save the threads that contain interesting information for future use. I
think it'll be harder to find information moving to StackOverflow. Also
I'll miss reading the lists.

Regards,

Andréas


2014-05-20 14:47 GMT+02:00 Ronny LÞvtangen <***@lovtangen.com>:

> Moving user questions to StackOverflow will probably be a good move for
> - branding/visibility (sometimes evaluations of framework x compared to
> framework y will use metrics such as number of posts on StackOverflow)
> - the likelihood of questions not going unanswered
> - users that occasionally have some questions but are not willing to get
> all user-list traffic in their inbox each day
>
> The dev-list has up to now been more or less disaster, at least it hasn't
> been used much for discussions around the development of Grails. I don't
> think it's bad if this list (now at Google groups) will get revitalised
> with some of the traffic (discussions on best practice etc) from the old
> user list.
>
> Ronny
>
>
> On 20 May 2014, at 14:24, Jeff Scott Brown <***@gopivotal.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > On May 20, 2014 at 7:11:40 AM, graham (***@operamail.com) wrote:
> >> I wonder whether it is more that the changes seem to contravene
> >> the "If it's not broke, don't fix it" maxim.
> >
> > One could argue that it was broke. For one, we often had the same
> questions being posted in 2 places (StackOverflow and grails-user) and the
> corresponding discussions would evolve separate from each other. There are
> others. Even if it weren’t broke, that doesn’t justify avoiding change.
> Moving some of our questions to StackOverflow is going to offer a number
> of benefits and we haven’t given up the mailing list so things that don’t
> make sense on StackOverflow still have a place to exist.
> >
> >
> >> If those in
> >> charge of Grails wanted to concentrate their efforts onto StackOverflow
> then
> >> why didn't they just do that and say the the grails-user and grails-dev
> >> mailing lists would not be read by 'official' Grails support regularly,
> >> rather than create yet another mailing list/forum. Or is it some desire
> to
> >> disassociate from Codehaus ?
> >
> > This change wasn’t about fleeing from Codehaus but it did turn out that
> the mailing lists were the last connection that Grails had to Codehaus so
> since we made the decision to embrace StackOverflow it was a good time to
> severe the last dependency on Codehaus.
> >
> > Of course community members are free to communicate on StackOverflow,
> the new Google Group, IRC, usenet groups, smoke signals and your local post
> office bulletin board. This change doesn’t impose any restrictions on
> that. Do whatever makes the most sense for you. This change speaks to
> where the core team will focus more of their support focus and gives the
> community a set of very simple guidelines for effective ways to engage the
> core team as well as the community for support. No one has to follow it
> but there are good reasons to follow it.
> >
> > This really is a good change and will
> >
> >
> >
> > JSB
> > —
> > Jeff Scott Brown
> > ***@gopivotal.com
> >
> > Find The Cause ~ Find The Cure
> > http://www.autismspeaks.org/
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe from this list, please visit:
> >
> > http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this list, please visit:
>
> http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
>
>
>

[Robert Oschwald]

Where to ask questions like this one, now?
Obviously not on SO, and also nothing for the dev Google list. Confused.

The documentation link on the plugin page for the spring-security-core plugin currently lead to a 404 error. Can one please fix it?
See http://grails.org/plugin/spring-security-core
and
http://grails-plugins.github.io/grails-spring-security-core/

Thanks,
Robert


Am 20.05.2014 um 14:53 schrieb Andréas Kühne <***@kuhne.se>:

> The main issue I have with this is that I usually scan the lists every day and save the threads that contain interesting information for future use. I think it'll be harder to find information moving to StackOverflow. Also I'll miss reading the lists.
>
> Regards,
>
> Andréas
>
>
> 2014-05-20 14:47 GMT+02:00 Ronny Løvtangen <***@lovtangen.com>:
> Moving user questions to StackOverflow will probably be a good move for
> - branding/visibility (sometimes evaluations of framework x compared to framework y will use metrics such as number of posts on StackOverflow)
> - the likelihood of questions not going unanswered
> - users that occasionally have some questions but are not willing to get all user-list traffic in their inbox each day
>
> The dev-list has up to now been more or less disaster, at least it hasn't been used much for discussions around the development of Grails. I don't think it's bad if this list (now at Google groups) will get revitalised with some of the traffic (discussions on best practice etc) from the old user list.
>
> Ronny
>
>
> On 20 May 2014, at 14:24, Jeff Scott Brown <***@gopivotal.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > On May 20, 2014 at 7:11:40 AM, graham (***@operamail.com) wrote:
> >> I wonder whether it is more that the changes seem to contravene
> >> the "If it's not broke, don't fix it" maxim.
> >
> > One could argue that it was broke. For one, we often had the same questions being posted in 2 places (StackOverflow and grails-user) and the corresponding discussions would evolve separate from each other. There are others. Even if it weren’t broke, that doesn’t justify avoiding change. Moving some of our questions to StackOverflow is going to offer a number of benefits and we haven’t given up the mailing list so things that don’t make sense on StackOverflow still have a place to exist.
> >
> >
> >> If those in
> >> charge of Grails wanted to concentrate their efforts onto StackOverflow then
> >> why didn't they just do that and say the the grails-user and grails-dev
> >> mailing lists would not be read by 'official' Grails support regularly,
> >> rather than create yet another mailing list/forum. Or is it some desire to
> >> disassociate from Codehaus ?
> >
> > This change wasn’t about fleeing from Codehaus but it did turn out that the mailing lists were the last connection that Grails had to Codehaus so since we made the decision to embrace StackOverflow it was a good time to severe the last dependency on Codehaus.
> >
> > Of course community members are free to communicate on StackOverflow, the new Google Group, IRC, usenet groups, smoke signals and your local post office bulletin board. This change doesn’t impose any restrictions on that. Do whatever makes the most sense for you. This change speaks to where the core team will focus more of their support focus and gives the community a set of very simple guidelines for effective ways to engage the core team as well as the community for support. No one has to follow it but there are good reasons to follow it.
> >
> > This really is a good change and will
> >
> >
> >
> > JSB
> > —
> > Jeff Scott Brown
> > ***@gopivotal.com
> >
> > Find The Cause ~ Find The Cure
> > http://www.autismspeaks.org/
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe from this list, please visit:
> >
> > http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this list, please visit:
>
> http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
>
>
>

[David Estes]

Well, last I checked the spring security core has an issues button that links to the place where you should raise issues related to the plugin. You can also raise a github issue.
--
David Estes

On May 20, 2014 at 9:07:27 AM, Robert Oschwald (***@googlemail.com) wrote:

Where to ask questions like this one, now? 
Obviously not on SO, and also nothing for the dev Google list. Confused.

The documentation link on the plugin page for the spring-security-core plugin currently lead to a 404 error. Can one please fix it? 
See http://grails.org/plugin/spring-security-core 
and 
http://grails-plugins.github.io/grails-spring-security-core/

Thanks, 
Robert


Am 20.05.2014 um 14:53 schrieb Andréas KÌhne <***@kuhne.se>:

The main issue I have with this is that I usually scan the lists every day and save the threads that contain interesting information for future use. I think it'll be harder to find information moving to StackOverflow. Also I'll miss reading the lists.

Regards,

Andréas


2014-05-20 14:47 GMT+02:00 Ronny LÞvtangen <***@lovtangen.com>:
Moving user questions to StackOverflow will probably be a good move for
 - branding/visibility (sometimes evaluations of framework x compared to framework y will use metrics such as number of posts on StackOverflow)
 - the likelihood of questions not going unanswered
 - users that occasionally have some questions but are not willing to get all user-list traffic in their inbox each day

The dev-list has up to now been more or less disaster, at least it hasn't been used much for discussions around the development of Grails. I don't think it's bad if this list (now at Google groups) will get revitalised with some of the traffic (discussions on best practice etc) from the old user list.

Ronny


On 20 May 2014, at 14:24, Jeff Scott Brown <***@gopivotal.com> wrote:

>
>
> On May 20, 2014 at 7:11:40 AM, graham (***@operamail.com) wrote:
>> I wonder whether it is more that the changes seem to contravene
>> the "If it's not broke, don't fix it" maxim.
>
> One could argue that it was broke.  For one, we often had the same questions being posted in 2 places (StackOverflow and grails-user) and the corresponding discussions would evolve separate from each other.  There are others.  Even if it weren’t broke, that doesn’t justify avoiding change.  Moving some of our questions to StackOverflow is going to offer a number of benefits and we haven’t given up the mailing list so things that don’t make sense on StackOverflow still have a place to exist.
>
>
>> If those in
>> charge of Grails wanted to concentrate their efforts onto StackOverflow then
>> why didn't they just do that and say the the grails-user and grails-dev
>> mailing lists would not be read by 'official' Grails support regularly,
>> rather than create yet another mailing list/forum. Or is it some desire to
>> disassociate from Codehaus ?
>
> This change wasn’t about fleeing from Codehaus but it did turn out that the mailing lists were the last connection that Grails had to Codehaus so since we made the decision to embrace StackOverflow it was a good time to severe the last dependency on Codehaus.
>
> Of course community members are free to communicate on StackOverflow, the new Google Group, IRC, usenet groups, smoke signals and your local post office bulletin board.  This change doesn’t impose any restrictions on that.  Do whatever makes the most sense for you.  This change speaks to where the core team will focus more of their support focus and gives the community a set of very simple guidelines for effective ways to engage the core team as well as the community for support.  No one has to follow it but there are good reasons to follow it.
>
> This really is a good change and will
>
>
>
> JSB
> —
> Jeff Scott Brown
> ***@gopivotal.com
>
> Find The Cause ~ Find The Cure
> http://www.autismspeaks.org/
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this list, please visit:
>
>    http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
>
>
>


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[Graeme Rocher]

And yes it is more likely to get noticed if you create an Github issue

On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 3:10 PM, David Estes <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> Well, last I checked the spring security core has an issues button that
> links to the place where you should raise issues related to the plugin. You
> can also raise a github issue.
> --
> David Estes
>
> On May 20, 2014 at 9:07:27 AM, Robert Oschwald
> (***@googlemail.com) wrote:
>
> Where to ask questions like this one, now?
> Obviously not on SO, and also nothing for the dev Google list. Confused.
>
> The documentation link on the plugin page for the spring-security-core
> plugin currently lead to a 404 error. Can one please fix it?
> See http://grails.org/plugin/spring-security-core
> and
> http://grails-plugins.github.io/grails-spring-security-core/
>
> Thanks,
> Robert
>
>
> Am 20.05.2014 um 14:53 schrieb Andréas Kühne <***@kuhne.se>:
>
> The main issue I have with this is that I usually scan the lists every day
> and save the threads that contain interesting information for future use. I
> think it'll be harder to find information moving to StackOverflow. Also I'll
> miss reading the lists.
>
> Regards,
>
> Andréas
>
>
> 2014-05-20 14:47 GMT+02:00 Ronny Løvtangen <***@lovtangen.com>:
>>
>> Moving user questions to StackOverflow will probably be a good move for
>> - branding/visibility (sometimes evaluations of framework x compared to
>> framework y will use metrics such as number of posts on StackOverflow)
>> - the likelihood of questions not going unanswered
>> - users that occasionally have some questions but are not willing to get
>> all user-list traffic in their inbox each day
>>
>> The dev-list has up to now been more or less disaster, at least it hasn't
>> been used much for discussions around the development of Grails. I don't
>> think it's bad if this list (now at Google groups) will get revitalised with
>> some of the traffic (discussions on best practice etc) from the old user
>> list.
>>
>> Ronny
>>
>>
>> On 20 May 2014, at 14:24, Jeff Scott Brown <***@gopivotal.com> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > On May 20, 2014 at 7:11:40 AM, graham (***@operamail.com) wrote:
>> >> I wonder whether it is more that the changes seem to contravene
>> >> the "If it's not broke, don't fix it" maxim.
>> >
>> > One could argue that it was broke. For one, we often had the same
>> > questions being posted in 2 places (StackOverflow and grails-user) and the
>> > corresponding discussions would evolve separate from each other. There are
>> > others. Even if it weren’t broke, that doesn’t justify avoiding change.
>> > Moving some of our questions to StackOverflow is going to offer a number of
>> > benefits and we haven’t given up the mailing list so things that don’t make
>> > sense on StackOverflow still have a place to exist.
>> >
>> >
>> >> If those in
>> >> charge of Grails wanted to concentrate their efforts onto StackOverflow
>> >> then
>> >> why didn't they just do that and say the the grails-user and grails-dev
>> >> mailing lists would not be read by 'official' Grails support regularly,
>> >> rather than create yet another mailing list/forum. Or is it some desire
>> >> to
>> >> disassociate from Codehaus ?
>> >
>> > This change wasn’t about fleeing from Codehaus but it did turn out that
>> > the mailing lists were the last connection that Grails had to Codehaus so
>> > since we made the decision to embrace StackOverflow it was a good time to
>> > severe the last dependency on Codehaus.
>> >
>> > Of course community members are free to communicate on StackOverflow,
>> > the new Google Group, IRC, usenet groups, smoke signals and your local post
>> > office bulletin board. This change doesn’t impose any restrictions on that.
>> > Do whatever makes the most sense for you. This change speaks to where the
>> > core team will focus more of their support focus and gives the community a
>> > set of very simple guidelines for effective ways to engage the core team as
>> > well as the community for support. No one has to follow it but there are
>> > good reasons to follow it.
>> >
>> > This really is a good change and will
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > JSB
>> > —
>> > Jeff Scott Brown
>> > ***@gopivotal.com
>> >
>> > Find The Cause ~ Find The Cure
>> > http://www.autismspeaks.org/
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > To unsubscribe from this list, please visit:
>> >
>> > http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe from this list, please visit:
>>
>> http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
>>
>>
>
>



--
Graeme Rocher
Grails Project Lead
SpringSource

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[Graeme Rocher]

Perfectively fine for the new Google group, which can be used to
discuss the development of Grails and its plugins

Cheers

On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 3:07 PM, Robert Oschwald
<***@googlemail.com> wrote:
> Where to ask questions like this one, now?
> Obviously not on SO, and also nothing for the dev Google list. Confused.
>
> The documentation link on the plugin page for the spring-security-core
> plugin currently lead to a 404 error. Can one please fix it?
> See http://grails.org/plugin/spring-security-core
> and
> http://grails-plugins.github.io/grails-spring-security-core/
>
> Thanks,
> Robert
>
>
> Am 20.05.2014 um 14:53 schrieb Andréas Kühne <***@kuhne.se>:
>
> The main issue I have with this is that I usually scan the lists every day
> and save the threads that contain interesting information for future use. I
> think it'll be harder to find information moving to StackOverflow. Also I'll
> miss reading the lists.
>
> Regards,
>
> Andréas
>
>
> 2014-05-20 14:47 GMT+02:00 Ronny Løvtangen <***@lovtangen.com>:
>>
>> Moving user questions to StackOverflow will probably be a good move for
>> - branding/visibility (sometimes evaluations of framework x compared to
>> framework y will use metrics such as number of posts on StackOverflow)
>> - the likelihood of questions not going unanswered
>> - users that occasionally have some questions but are not willing to get
>> all user-list traffic in their inbox each day
>>
>> The dev-list has up to now been more or less disaster, at least it hasn't
>> been used much for discussions around the development of Grails. I don't
>> think it's bad if this list (now at Google groups) will get revitalised with
>> some of the traffic (discussions on best practice etc) from the old user
>> list.
>>
>> Ronny
>>
>>
>> On 20 May 2014, at 14:24, Jeff Scott Brown <***@gopivotal.com> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > On May 20, 2014 at 7:11:40 AM, graham (***@operamail.com) wrote:
>> >> I wonder whether it is more that the changes seem to contravene
>> >> the "If it's not broke, don't fix it" maxim.
>> >
>> > One could argue that it was broke. For one, we often had the same
>> > questions being posted in 2 places (StackOverflow and grails-user) and the
>> > corresponding discussions would evolve separate from each other. There are
>> > others. Even if it weren’t broke, that doesn’t justify avoiding change.
>> > Moving some of our questions to StackOverflow is going to offer a number of
>> > benefits and we haven’t given up the mailing list so things that don’t make
>> > sense on StackOverflow still have a place to exist.
>> >
>> >
>> >> If those in
>> >> charge of Grails wanted to concentrate their efforts onto StackOverflow
>> >> then
>> >> why didn't they just do that and say the the grails-user and grails-dev
>> >> mailing lists would not be read by 'official' Grails support regularly,
>> >> rather than create yet another mailing list/forum. Or is it some desire
>> >> to
>> >> disassociate from Codehaus ?
>> >
>> > This change wasn’t about fleeing from Codehaus but it did turn out that
>> > the mailing lists were the last connection that Grails had to Codehaus so
>> > since we made the decision to embrace StackOverflow it was a good time to
>> > severe the last dependency on Codehaus.
>> >
>> > Of course community members are free to communicate on StackOverflow,
>> > the new Google Group, IRC, usenet groups, smoke signals and your local post
>> > office bulletin board. This change doesn’t impose any restrictions on that.
>> > Do whatever makes the most sense for you. This change speaks to where the
>> > core team will focus more of their support focus and gives the community a
>> > set of very simple guidelines for effective ways to engage the core team as
>> > well as the community for support. No one has to follow it but there are
>> > good reasons to follow it.
>> >
>> > This really is a good change and will
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > JSB
>> > —
>> > Jeff Scott Brown
>> > ***@gopivotal.com
>> >
>> > Find The Cause ~ Find The Cure
>> > http://www.autismspeaks.org/
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > To unsubscribe from this list, please visit:
>> >
>> > http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe from this list, please visit:
>>
>> http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
>>
>>
>
>



--
Graeme Rocher
Grails Project Lead
SpringSource

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[Eric Weimer]

I always agree with Eric.

Thanks!

Eric Weimer
(From my cell phone.)
On May 14, 2014 7:52 PM, "Eric MacAdie" <***@gmail.com> wrote:

> I agree that there should be a mailing list for Grails.
>
> = Eric MacAdie
>
>
>
> On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 9:18 AM, José Vilmar Estácio de Souza <
> ***@informal.com.br> wrote:
>
>> +1.
>> Another point in favor of the mailing list is accessibility.
>>
>> The forums do not always have a very good accessibility, which makes it a
>> little more difficult to access by blind people like me
>> Thanks.
>>
>>
>> On 05/14/2014 10:26 AM, Harlan H. Bloom wrote:
>>
>>> I've seen recently that more and more technical groups are getting away
>>> from mailing lists. I personally like the mailing lists because I can
>>> actually read them when I'm offline.
>>>
>>> I commute to work using public transportation. This is almost the only
>>> time that I have available to try and keep up with current technology or
>>> interests. While on the buses, I almost never have access to the internet.
>>> Forums are not convenient at all. Plus all my interests are in one place,
>>> instead of having to jump from one site to another all day long.
>>>
>>> I do have a smartphone and I do tether my computer to the phone.
>>> However, I also have a limited amount of usage for each month. If I had
>>> to stay online to scan all the different forums, I wouldn't be able to
>>> afford my phone bill.
>>>
>>> I realize I'm in the severe minority on this topic, especially since I'm
>>> not a regular contributor.
>>>
>>> Please keep the email groups somehow.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Harlan...
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Bob Brown" <***@transentia.com.au>
>>> To: ***@grails.codehaus.org
>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2014 5:44:40 AM
>>> Subject: RE: [grails-user] Re: Deprecating The Grails Mailing Lists
>>>
>>> I like this idea, so +1 from me.
>>>
>>> What often bothers me about Stackoverflow is that the signal to noise
>>> ratio
>>> can be very small.
>>>
>>> One often sees unchallenged responses in abandoned questions that are
>>> hopelessly wrong, out of date or misleading. There's no curating
>>> happening
>>> but everything comes up in searches and so on with equal weight.
>>>
>>> Somehow, in a list (even a searchable, archived one) things get a
>>> lifetime
>>> and pass out of the window of current-ness (hope that makes sense).
>>>
>>> Plus, one often gets drive-by 'contributors' with axes to grind ("You
>>> shouldn't be doing it in Grails! Use Super-Duper XYZ v3.7.9.4.1.alpha
>>> Framework instead! It can do reverse Polish database access better than
>>> anything else!" or "I tried Grails once. It didn't work efficiently on my
>>> 8086 minix laptop, so it's clearly a P.O.S.. Bash scripting FTW! I mean,
>>> I
>>> handle _tens_ of requests per minute on my box <grin>").
>>>
>>> Again, this seems to happen less in a list.
>>>
>>> The cumulative effect has the potential to constitute bad PR for Grails,
>>> IM(NS)HO.
>>>
>>> There's my AUD$0.02c.
>>>
>>> Whether this is a contribution to signal or noise is up in the air, I
>>> guess...
>>>
>>> BOB
>>> Should I don an asbestos suite?
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Robert Oschwald [mailto:***@googlemail.com]
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, 14 May 2014 8:29 PM
>>>> To: ***@grails.codehaus.org ***@grails.codehaus.org
>>>> Subject: Re: [grails-user] Re: Deprecating The Grails Mailing Lists
>>>>
>>>> +1
>>>>
>>>> Am 14.05.2014 um 11:53 schrieb Rainer Frey <***@gmail.com>:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>> why not create a Grails Users google group? Stackoverflow is so
>>>> limited by its strict format that requires questions that have "right"
>>>>
>>> answers
>>>
>>>> and don't allow for any debate. There are open questions/discussions on
>>>> how to best achieve certain things with grails that are no suitable for
>>>> Stackoverflow yet are not related to the development of the framework
>>>> itself and would not have been appropriate for the dev mailing list.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 4:42 AM, Eric MacAdie
>>>> <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 'comp.lang.groovy' and
>>>> 'comp.lang.grails' :)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 10:47 AM, Owen Rubel
>>>> <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> all in favor of a grails usenet group say
>>>> 'comp.lang.groovy' and
>>>> 'comp.lang.grails' :)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> View this message in context:
>>>> http://grails.1312388.n4.nabble.com/Deprecating-The-
>>>> Grails-Mailing-Lists-
>>>> tp4656735p4656850.html
>>>> Sent from the Grails - user mailing list
>>>> archive at
>>>> Nabble.com.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>> ----
>>>> To unsubscribe from this list, please visit:
>>>>
>>>> http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe from this list, please visit:
>>>
>>> http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe from this list, please visit:
>>>
>>> http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> --
>> {}S José Vilmar Estácio de Souza
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe from this list, please visit:
>>
>> http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
>>
>>
>>
>

[Jeff Scott Brown]

On May 23, 2014 at 11:24:45 AM, Eric Weimer (***@gmail.com) wrote:
> I always agree with Eric.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Eric Weimer
> (From my cell phone.)
> On May 14, 2014 7:52 PM, "Eric MacAdie" wrote:
>
> > I agree that there should be a mailing list for Grails.
> >
> > = Eric MacAdie
> >

I too agree.  We should, and do, have a mailing list for Grails.  Right now that list is grails-dev-***@googlegroups.com.   I doubt we will get rid of that any time soon.



JSB

—
Jeff Scott Brown
***@gopivotal.com

Find The Cause ~ Find The Cure
http://www.autismspeaks.org/



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[graham]

I agree... while I have used Stackoverflow at times I do find that its format
is not always helpful. You certainly can find a specific answer, if you're
lucky, but useful, interesting discussion is at a minimum and there is
little to be learned by browsing the topics - and over the years I've picked
up quite a lot of useful information simply by following interesting topics
here. And the avoidance of "opinion" is a big disadvantage; there have been
many useful threads here along the lines of "what do you think is the best
way to ... ?" and the answers are usually pure opinion.

As for google groups - well , as my organisation has to pay UK corporation
tax when it makes ANY profit I have been avoiding google recently, with some
success. Indeed, when I did try to sign up for a google group some months
ago to follow a grails-related topic, it wouldn't let me set up an account
for some reason, and despite a few attempts (different browsers, emails
etc.) I had to give up.

graham



--
View this message in context: http://grails.1312388.n4.nabble.com/Deprecating-The-Grails-Mailing-Lists-tp4656735p4656865.html
Sent from the Grails - user mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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[Jeff Scott Brown]

On May 14, 2014 at 1:46:59 PM, graham (***@operamail.com) wrote:
>
>
> As for google groups - well , as my organisation has to pay UK corporation
> tax when it makes ANY profit I have been avoiding google recently, with some
> success. 

I am not following.  What does your organizations tax have to do with using or avoiding Google?




JSB
—
Jeff Scott Brown
***@gopivotal.com

Find The Cause ~ Find The Cure
http://www.autismspeaks.org/



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[Graeme Rocher]

On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 2:08 PM, Jeff Scott Brown <***@gopivotal.com> wrote:
>
>
> On May 14, 2014 at 1:46:59 PM, graham (***@operamail.com) wrote:
>>
>>
>> As for google groups - well , as my organisation has to pay UK corporation
>> tax when it makes ANY profit I have been avoiding google recently, with some
>> success.
>
> I am not following. What does your organizations tax have to do with using or avoiding Google?

Think it relates to the recent controversy in the UK about Google not
paying any UK tax

Cheers


>
>
>
>
> JSB
> —
> Jeff Scott Brown
> ***@gopivotal.com
>
> Find The Cause ~ Find The Cure
> http://www.autismspeaks.org/
>
>
>
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--
Graeme Rocher
Grails Project Lead
SpringSource

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[graham]

Graeme Rocher-2 wrote
>>> As for google groups - well , as my organisation has to pay UK
>>> corporation
>>> tax when it makes ANY profit I have been avoiding google recently, with
>>> some
>>> success.
>>
>> I am not following. What does your organizations tax have to do with
>> using or avoiding Google?
>
> Think it relates to the recent controversy in the UK about Google not
> paying any UK tax

Indeed it does - but not just in the UK, I should point out.

graham




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[graham]

Whatever does, or has happened, I'm afraid I won't be contributing to any
Google groups, not that I was a heavy contributor here, because, yet again,
Google has declined to provide me with an account ("...cannot provide you
with an account at this time") I tried a couple of times with different
browsers and the same happened each time. Oh well, and it wasn't that I was
using any inflammatory username like, say
'google-should-pay-taxes-like-everybody-else' , I wouldn't dream of doing
that...

Over the decades (mmm, it is really) I've had many accounts with many
organisations and Google is the only one to do this sort of thing - that
must mean something!

graham




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[rawi]

Hello,
I'm for sure not an "active" contributor here, but it was always warmly
like... reading in my home's living room :)

I've just posted for the first time in SO, and ... because I'm saying seldom
something to you, I begun with a heartly "Hi" :)
Well, SO seems to have wiped my Hi away... :-/
(I've klicked the back button and it was definitely a Hi in the text box)

Hmm, I don't like it that way, even if it's efficient for the real Pros.

I hope that nobody of you would take those my 2 cents as an insolence or
disobedience.

Regards, Rawi



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[Eric Weimer]

My eyes glaze over at long winded posts.

For clarity, it would be nice to see, right at the top, the executive
summary. A format like...
--------------------------------------------
Announcing a change...

Currently
... ask usage questions here
... ask for opinions here
... discuss futures here
... Announcements from here
... Report bugs here
... etc.

On this date we will...
.... Same as above with changes

Reasons for change...

(Stick to facts, avoid opinion. Not commenting on anyone, just good general
practice.)

HOWEVER, the rss reader link provided in the announcement goes to a Mac
only tool. Is this opinion?

I have to use, test on, clients require, etc Winblows, Linux, Android and
other non Apple systems.

Happy for those who can be 100% 'insert favorite here', but that's quite
rare in the wild.
--+----+---++---+--------
Pretty happy with my post so far so I'll add a related opportunity to
relieve some pain!

Personally I prefer announcements and their discussions to be separated.

The problem is a first post followed by numerous replies, discussions,
tangents, noise, and the (gotta love it) "question on a totally different
subject", leaves one feeling there might be an important change to the
first post buried on page 23 of 77, as sometimes happens.

While on the pedestal, I gotta wonder why, when you find your question
already posed, do you waste time by clicking the link and finding all the
responses are " me too" and my personal fave "I don't know."

What must go through a mind to post "I don't know"?

(Apologies if it's a firm of Autism or something.)

Thanks!

Eric Weimer
(From my cell phone.)

[Jeff Scott Brown]

On May 23, 2014 at 12:17:30 PM, Eric Weimer (***@gmail.com) wrote:
> 
>
> HOWEVER, the rss reader link provided in the announcement goes to a Mac
> only tool. Is this opinion?
> 

Is what opinion?

The RSS reader link provided in the announcement was part of a description of what I personally use to deal with StackOverflow.  I tried to make that clear in the text as I used the words and phrases like “I” and “works for me”.  It also included the text "All of that was very simple to setup and works well for me but there is no reason you have to use any of that to participate on StackOverflow.”.  It didn’t occur to me that knowing what tools I use might be problematic for some but if it is then I am sorry for that.




JSB


—
Jeff Scott Brown
***@gopivotal.com

Find The Cause ~ Find The Cure
http://www.autismspeaks.org/



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[Anon]

Jeff,

I appreciate everything you do for the community. You've been a great
contributor for years now and I certainly meant no offense.

In fact, I bought your Groovy Recipe book back when it came out and have
attended a couple of your talks.

As I read the announcement I realized my attempts to use RSS have never
stuck due to lack of finding a satisfactory tool set. Using one that an
accomplished professional had found is a great way quickly resolve an item
on my lengthy to do list.

I appreciate the helpful tips you provide, and everything worked well until
I found the last tool was Apple only. You said it worked well for all your
devices, which to me infers a cross-platform solution. It was no big deal,
I lost a couple of minutes of time is all.

Using the term "all devices" while omitting "Apple only" can create *the
appearance* of the opinion that Apple products are the only one's worth
owning.

I'm sure in your case it was just an unintended omission, but it serves as
a good example of how easy it is to create an appearance different from
what is intended.



Thanks!

Eric


On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 12:41 PM, Jeff Scott Brown <***@gopivotal.com>wrote:

>
>
> On May 23, 2014 at 12:17:30 PM, Eric Weimer (***@gmail.com) wrote:
> >
> >
> > HOWEVER, the rss reader link provided in the announcement goes to a Mac
> > only tool. Is this opinion?
> >
>
> Is what opinion?
>
> The RSS reader link provided in the announcement was part of a description
> of what I personally use to deal with StackOverflow. I tried to make that
> clear in the text as I used the words and phrases like "I" and "works for
> me". It also included the text "All of that was very simple to setup and
> works well for me but there is no reason you have to use any of that to
> participate on StackOverflow.". It didn't occur to me that knowing what
> tools I use might be problematic for some but if it is then I am sorry for
> that.
>
>
>
>
> JSB
>
>
> --
> Jeff Scott Brown
> ***@gopivotal.com
>
> Find The Cause ~ Find The Cure
> http://www.autismspeaks.org/
>
>
>
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> To unsubscribe from this list, please visit:
>
> http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
>
>
>

[Jeff Scott Brown]

On May 23, 2014 at 2:12:10 PM, Anon (***@gmail.com) wrote:
> Jeff,
>
> I appreciate everything you do for the community. You've been a great
> contributor for years now and I certainly meant no offense.

I did not take any offense.


>
> In fact, I bought your Groovy Recipe book back when it came out and have
> attended a couple of your talks.

I have not written a Groovy Recipe book.


>
> Using the term "all devices" while omitting "Apple only" can create *the
> appearance* of the opinion that Apple products are the only one's worth
> owning.

I can not believe that any reasonable person could read the note I wrote and interpret it as suggesting that Apple products are the only ones worth owning.  

I don’t think I ever said that any of those tools work on all devices.  I said that they worked on my desktop, laptop and all of my mobile devices.  They do.  



JSB

—
Jeff Scott Brown
***@gopivotal.com

Find The Cause ~ Find The Cure
http://www.autismspeaks.org/



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